ATS Shoulder Title Question

[Home Guard]

I have seen two different shoulder titles that I believe were worn with the ATS cap badge, but do not understand it, so figure I am wrong and missing something some place.

The title I would expect to be worn with it is the "Auxiliary Territorial Service" as a three color title. But the other I have seen it the "Women's Royal Army Corps" in white on a maroon color.

Can you all help me understand the difference please?

Thank you,

Terry

[engr9266]

The ATS was the for runner of the WRAC,
The Women's Royal Army Corps was the corps to which all women in the British Army belonged from 1949 to 1992, except medical, dental and veterinary officers and chaplains, the Ulster Defence Regiment which recruited women from 1973, and nurses. They had their own cap badge.

Jerry

[grey_green_acorn]

Jerry is correct. For Women's Royal Army Corps badges see my album:

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...p?albumid=3708

Tim

[Home Guard]

Thank you gentlemen!!! Exactly what I was looking for.

Tim, a very impressive collection in your album!!!

Terry

[Mike_2817]

Originally Posted by engr9266

The ATS was the for runner of the WRAC,
The Women's Royal Army Corps was the corps to which all women in the British Army belonged from 1949 to 1992, except medical, dental and veterinary officers and chaplains, the Ulster Defence Regiment which recruited women from 1973, and nurses. They had their own cap badge.

Jerry

WRAC started to transfer to their parent Corps in March 1990, with the WRAC finely disbanding in April 1992. Remaining WRAC transferred to the Adjutant General Corps.

Male nurses in the RAMC started to transfer to QARANC in 1990 ceasing that Corps all female standing as well.

I have pictures of WRAC rebadging to RAOC still wearing their Green berets with Beach Brown tear drops... Al had Dark Blue berets within the year.

[Home Guard]

As an add on to this thread. I have read on line this title as being both Auxiliary Territorial Service and Army Technical School. Which is correct? If the former I am interested in adding it to my collection, but the latter it would be of no interest.




Thank you!

Terry

[Milmed]

This is NOT Auxiliary Territorial Service

[engr9266]

Originally Posted by Home Guard

As an add on to this thread. I have read on line this title as being both Auxiliary Territorial Service and Army Technical School. Which is correct? If the former I am interested in adding it to my collection, but the latter it would be of no interest.




Thank you!

Terry

Hello terry, I had spoken to a archivist of the A.T.S. about this title and she assured me this title was not worn by the women's A.T.S. but worn by the "ARMY TECHINCAL SCHOOL"

Jerry

[jeep]

It's not Army Technical School either! That title (which I don't have so can't show a pic) was gold on black similar to the Apprentice School title shown. I think (maybe incorrect) that the title in question is a fantasy item.

[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by Home Guard

As an add on to this thread. I have read on line this title as being both Auxiliary Territorial Service and Army Technical School. Which is correct? If the former I am interested in adding it to my collection, but the latter it would be of no interest.




Thank you!

Terry

Same title , description :

"A.T.S. Auxiliary Territorial Service WW2 cloth shoulder title

A good scarce 1st pattern embroidered black letters within a green border on khaki title.VGC"

https://www.deadspartan.co.uk/shop.p...47#prettyPhoto

[Postwarden]

The debate on this title has rumbled on for years without a definite answer.

In my book Badges on Battle Dress I note that although the ATS got battle dress in 1941 they did not get an official coloured arm title until 1945. In the interval it seems possible that an enterprising badge maker had these produced to sell to the ATS for their battle dress.

I have seen quite a few examples all of them unworn so perhaps they did not sell.

The only confirmation we can hope for is a photograph of an ATS member wearing one but as battle dress was not permitted to be worn off duty when it might have been captured in a studio photo, it seems we might have to wait a long time.

Jon

[Home Guard]

Thank you gentlemen. I see their is debate over it. I am guessing if one came a long at a decent price I would go ahead and add it to the collection. This is my source for the picture. I found this on line, but have no idea what their source is, but thought it helpful.



Have to say how happy I am to have joined this forum, and be able to get such great discussion on the subjects that interest me. Well done all!!!!

Terry

[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by Postwarden

In my book Badges on Battle Dress I note that although the ATS got battle dress in 1941 they did not get an official coloured arm title until 1945. In the interval it seems possible that an enterprising badge maker had these produced to sell to the ATS for their battle dress.

Found this on ATS Remembered website :

"Shoulder titles in gilding metal were designed and the War Office records at the P.R.O. include a cardboard pattern which was sent to the King for approval.

There was initially concern that the shoulder titles (which consisted of A.T.S. in block capitals) would be confused with that issued to the boys of the Army Technical School. In fact the King himself suggested that a cloth title be adopted for the top of each sleeve. However, F.A.N.Y. and Women's Legion members who had been transferred to the A.T.S. were allowed to wear their cloth title from those organisations, as a distinguishing mark of their prior service and it was agreed that the gilded badges would compliment these cloth titles. As the war progressed, utility versions of the badges appeared - firstly as a cloth version of the gilded title which was attached to the epaulette and eventually as a cloth shoulder title in brown, beech and green."

So there may have been a gap when "unofficial" titles were produced ?

http://www.atsremembered.org.uk/badgesgeneral.htm

[Bala]

Was this ATS OCTU shoulder title made in any other versions?

I only know of the ATS OCTU at Edinburgh - were there others?

[engr9266]

Thanks for showing this title. I have never seen this one before. Do you have any other information regarding this??
Jerry

Originally Posted by Bala

Was this ATS OCTU shoulder title made in any other versions?

I only know of the ATS OCTU at Edinburgh - were there others?