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#1
22-10-12, 11:46 AM
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please help me out
Here we go gentlemen,
This badge was bought at Stratford yesterday, the seller is a highly trusted dealer who openly admitted that he wasn't sure what exactly it was, he thought that it may be a Royal Fusiliers Side Cap badge and I bought it as such. The silver rose helps to substantiate the connection to the Royal Fusiliers but the grenade flames are more likely to be Royal Engineers, can anyone identify it please, obviously if a Royal Fusiliers I keep it but if it is to the Royal Engineers, it goes for the same as I paid for it. Incidentally, it's dimensions are approximately 60mm in height and 35mm in width ?? As always, thanks in advance. Dave. 
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#2
22-10-12, 12:03 PM
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Hi Dave.
If you have Colin Churchill's collar badge book, look at page 44, item 203; Royal Fusiliers late 1890s embroidery grenade with silver rose. Regards Brian
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#3
22-10-12, 12:26 PM
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Cheers Brian,
I did have a quick look last night but noticed that in Churchill, the model shown has 8 flames where as mine has nine, hence the RE thought pattern ?? everything else, size etc, points in the direction of that collar ??? would there be such a variation in design, I'm sure there isn't a connection between the rose and the Engineers ?? Another point I have just noticed on re-checking page 44, is that on the next page is an image of the R.F. cadets that I also show and it appears that unless cap and collar were the same size, I have just acquired a very expensive collar to said cadets ?? I wonder ??? I'm still hoping it is Royal Fusiliers. Dave.
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#4
22-10-12, 12:35 PM
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Hi Dave.
It may be your eyes, It might be mine. I've counted again. I see both with nine. Regards Brian
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#5
22-10-12, 01:08 PM
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Hi Brian,
You're a poet and I bet you know it ?  I've looked again at Churchill's, and I'm sorry mate but I only see eight ??  There is also a difference in the size of the rose ?  but I'm not quite as good as yourself at writing prose ??????  Is there a remote possibilty that whilst making my stick, You may have poked your eye with end of that horn atop of it ? Dave.
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#8
22-10-12, 01:57 PM
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The attached is from "The First Londons" by R.E.Handley.Either the roses are bigger or the grenades are smaller on the badges shown and the grenades are silver.
There is also an officers silver bullion badge for forage cap at fig 32 but that has a crown superimposed on the flames of the grenade and the rose has a garter around it P.B.
__________________
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#9
22-10-12, 02:00 PM
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Hi Marc,
According to Wordsworth, sorry, I mean Churchill, he writes ' The badge worn on the scarlet frock coat in the late 1890's was a horizontal gilt metal imitation embroidery grenade with a silver rose. ( Fig 203 ). A later simpler pattern is shown in ( Fig 204 ). Sadly, me being a pessimist, I have noticed that there are several examples of Infantry Regiments, including the Irish, that have nine flamed grenades as bullion collar badges and I am now of the opinion that mine may be an altered collar, the silver rose being used to replace which ever insignia should be present on this collar ?? I hope I'm wrong ?????  Dave.
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#12
22-10-12, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Your post has lifted my spirits somewhat ( I re-iterate that the dealer did say he thought it could be a side cap badge ) but I still have a concern over the size of the rose on my example ?? The book you have quoted from is the one that Wilf advised me get for all my London questions, I have yet to see one for sale but if anyone does, I would appreciate a message ?? Sorry Marc, I can still only see nine on my example Dave.
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#13
22-10-12, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
You are a Philistine ?? I still haven't worked out how to weld Bullion to gilding metal plus the fact that I would prefer it to be to the Royal Fusiliers ?? Dave.
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