British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > British Military Insignia > Formation Signs and Patches

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-12-16, 01:12 PM
Drew's Avatar
Drew Drew is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Kyoto
Posts: 224
Default Lond. Rgt. Bn. patches in 1917 and 1918

Hello,

Would anyone be kind enough to tell me what happened to London Regiment battalion patches after Jan/Feb 1918, when the Territorial Force was reorganised? I have read a number of descriptions of battalion patches in 1917, but I wonder what happened when the brigades were reduced from 4 to 3 battalions.

It seems to me that since seniority had changed, many battalions would have had to changed their patch. The following excellent thread here leads me to believe that the 47th Division changed as shown in my diagram attached. Is my presumption correct and was the situation the same for the 56th and 58th Divisions?

Many thanks in advance for any help you may be able to provide.

Chris

PICTURE ATTACHED NOW THOUGHT TO BE WRONG
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 47th Div 1916-18.jpg (29.9 KB, 93 views)

Last edited by Drew; 07-08-18 at 09:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-12-16, 03:22 PM
badjez's Avatar
badjez badjez is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hervey Bay QLD Australia
Posts: 2,438
Default London Regt

I'm unsure what you refer to by the reorganisation of the TF. The TF as a separate entity had really ceased to exist post-1916 when Ordnance took over supplying insignia, and only those units of 2nd and 3rd Line were administered by TFA. Allocation of coloured flashes was overseen by Brigade or Divisional Staff.

When the TA was reformed in 1920/21 coloured patches were not worn, although some units did reintroduce them as regimental flashes prior to 1939.

The IWM hold a substantial collection of flashes, and associated paperwork, perhaps if you wrote to them they might assist you.

Stephen.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-12-16, 08:35 PM
Drew's Avatar
Drew Drew is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Kyoto
Posts: 224
Default

Hello Stephen,

Thanks very much for your reply. I am sorry, on reflection I see that I was inaccurate in what I wrote. I don't know what I was talking about! I meant when the British brigades were reduced from 4 battalions to 3. A change not restricted to the TF. Apologies.

Hadn't thought of writing to the IWM so thanks very much for the suggestion.

Cheers,

Chris
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-12-16, 07:41 PM
badjez's Avatar
badjez badjez is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hervey Bay QLD Australia
Posts: 2,438
Default London Regt

Chris,

The IWM has the best collection of these patches. Firstly they contacted every unit to obtain copies of what were being worn, then the wrote to all surviving Bn commanders seeking their recollections. The collection is the jewel of badges they hold, although apparently their German Imperial Army collection is also world class. The curator's there are very friendly, and helpful, once you get past the frosty point of first contact.

Stephen.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-12-16, 09:36 PM
Drew's Avatar
Drew Drew is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Kyoto
Posts: 224
Default

Stephen,

Thanks again for the advice. I will write to them directly. It is interesting as some more evidence from JT's excellent collection points towards such a change. This picture shows 2 Lt. Cyril Thomas Underhay As an 11th Bn. Officer (according to his collar badge). However, his MiC also states 21st London, which would mean he seems to be wearing a yellow club patch for that battallion for 1918.
It would be nice to get the definitive answer for my query, so I will take your advice and drop them a line.

Cheers,

Chris

Last edited by Drew; 07-12-16 at 01:05 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-12-16, 11:15 PM
Voltigeur's Avatar
Voltigeur Voltigeur is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montreal,Canada.
Posts: 5,780
Default

Can't see the photo Drew..
Jo
__________________
"There truly exists but one perfect order: that of cemeteries. The dead never complain and they enjoy their equality in silence." -

“There are things we know that we know,” “There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we do not know we don't know.”
Donald Rumsfeld, before the Iraqi Invasion,2003.

Age is something that doesn't matter, unless you are a cheese.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-12-16, 01:06 AM
Drew's Avatar
Drew Drew is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Kyoto
Posts: 224
Default

Thanks, Jo. Hopefully it should be OK now. Think it was something to do with trying to use an iphone instead of my computer.
Cheers,

Chris

Last edited by Drew; 07-12-16 at 01:15 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 13-12-16, 12:50 PM
Drew's Avatar
Drew Drew is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Kyoto
Posts: 224
Default

Hello,

Heard back from the IWM, and no luck there I am afraid. They say that they are unable to help beyond the description given on the item's page, due to the thousands of emails they get. I think perhaps if I went in to see them in person, things might be different, but via email this is all they would say. All being well, I should be moving back to the UK next year, and can wander up there then. They did direct me to try the National Archives, so I will have a look into that.

Cheers,

Chris
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 13-12-16, 10:02 PM
Drew's Avatar
Drew Drew is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Kyoto
Posts: 224
Default

I found the following records as a 'subseries within WO 32', at the National Archives (WO 32- War Office and successors: Registered Files (General Series)):
-Formation Signs
-Dress and embellishments: Territorial Army County Associations
That will be another avenue to look into.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-05-17, 01:15 PM
Drew's Avatar
Drew Drew is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Kyoto
Posts: 224
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew View Post
I found the following records as a 'subseries within WO 32', at the National Archives (WO 32- War Office and successors: Registered Files (General Series)):
-Formation Signs
-Dress and embellishments: Territorial Army County Associations
That will be another avenue to look into.
The above files have turned out to be from the 1950s. Would anyone know if there are any files like these for the Great War period? I cannot find similar anywhere on the NA search engine. I have a few days spare and would like to go and look them up.

Many thanks,

Chris
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
battalion patches, brigade reorganisation, london regiment

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:20 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.