Lake Superior scottish Staybrite Badge

[Phillip Herring]

Originally Posted by ddaydodger

"3.5.1 Metals:
When specified, one of the following shall be used in the manufacture of badges, buttons, insignia and buckles. The metal used for each individual item shall be in accordance with the sealed pattern, drawing or applicable specification whichever is specified in the invitation to tender."

The next 4 pages list all the metals and their specific alloys and composition, IAW ASTM B 413.

You said it first.

Originally Posted by ddaydodger

Wow, aren't you precise!!

[Bill A]

Okay, lets not get into the snipping.

[ddaydodger]

Really, that the best you got? Would you like a copy? Or would you like me to copy out all 25 pages of technical data. And as I said, it lays out the requirement for CF badges, not every specific badge. I thought that was inferred. Maybe I need to more precise for the nitpickers out there who have difficulty with technical data.

I think the moderator needs to step in about now.

[Bill A]

It would help if a link to the doc was posted. Then it could be downloaded and studied by those interested in the details.
And, as indicated in post #17, stop the snipping.

[ddaydodger]

DWAN document. The link cannot be posted. Nor is it CTAT, if anyone wants a copy PM me.

[Phillip Herring]

Originally Posted by ddaydodger

Really, that the best you got? Would you like a copy? Or would you like me to copy out all 25 pages of technical data. And as I said, it lays out the requirement for CF badges, not every specific badge. I thought that was inferred. Maybe I need to more precise for the nitpickers out there who have difficulty with technical data.

I think the moderator needs to step in about now.

Please don't make assumptions about me. I was a technician in the CF for 26+ years, so I think I can handle the technical data. There was a reason why we got specialist pay.

Phil

[Bill A]

Okay, all have had their say.
Lets focus on the question that opened the thread. The LSSR badge. In my opinion, I don't think it is a badge the unit has worn.

[bess55]

Gentlemen,
I am fairly certain this cap badge is of the type made by M. Azam & Sons of Pakistan. They are manufactured of anodised aluminium (AA). Many British army cap badges are seen made by this company. They are copies of original regiments and have three main indicators:-

The gold is dark and rich (like this badge)
The front of the badge has a grainy appearance (as does this)
Badges with lugs present with the curious flat piece of alloy with a round hole drilled through it - not wire loops as you would expect ( like this badge) - or poorly made sliders - sometimes bearing a JR Gaunt maker mark.

Anyone who has handled original badges (be they AA or any other metal), will recognise the poor quality and odd manufacture in a heartbeat.

I have a few random examples. I believe Azam & Son make badges from numerous national military and police organisations.

So, in my opinion its an Azam copy.

Regards all

Bess

[Bill A]

Thanks for your observations Bess. I have viewed their web site a couple of times and they do manufacture a wide range of Commonwealth badges (among other militaria). The question now, is did the LSSR purchase an inventory, or is this a badge someone has acquired and offered up. The quality is so poor I find it hard to believe that a unit would buy such for sale in their kit shop. But, it may have happened.

[Phillip Herring]

If you look at my link in Post #7, you will see Penny's offering.
I think they used a Scully badge as a sample and had their manufacturer churn some out.
I'd be curious to know what Scullys think of it.

Phil

[Bill A]

The images from Penny's leave a lot to be desired. I can't make out the details. My understanding is that his badges are mostly contracted to Pakistan, so there is every possibility that is what is here. But firms like Azam also sell to the public.

[bess55]

Originally Posted by Bill A

The images from Penny's leave a lot to be desired. I can't make out the details. My understanding is that his badges are mostly contracted to Pakistan, so there is every possibility that is what is here. But firms like Azam also sell to the public.

Good morning Gents,
my understanding is that Azam probably do make some badges 'officially' for Asian/middle eastern organisations, however I would suggest that their quality would not pass the control system for British/Canadian official military use - these badges appear to be just made cheaply for the collectors market and certainly the British badges that are seen are not contracted by the MOD or individual units. The quality is just not good enough. However if you have ever handled any former original Iraqi badges, they are often of the poor, light alloy manufactured, AA type and NOT of the quality seen with 'commonwealth' regiments or corps.

Kind regards to all

Bess

[Snowdrop 68]

Guys,

Many, many thanks for the replies. In the pic on eBay it looked like and was described as metal officer's badge so I thought I'd have a bid (Even though no pic of the back was included). I usually won't bid on items which don't have back and front pics.

It certainly does look like other Indian/Pakistani badges I have in my collection.

I might drop an email to the regiment to make enquiries if they ever tried these and maybe didn't like the quality. I doubt it but you never know.

Either way, good or bad, I'll be keeping it in my collection as an example of a fake (which I've never seen for LSSR)

Once again, thanks for your comments,

All the best, Bill

[norfolk regt man]

This Essex cap badge has a similar finish as the LSS badge.
It is not made of anodized alum (AA).
It feels the weight of an alloy of some sort, and its not brass.
But the finish is just like an AA badge.

It has to be a modern copy, maybe at a push for a cadet unit or tv.

while I am on here, which one of these is correct for AA

Anodized aluminium
Anodized alloy
Anodised aluminium
Anodised alloy

Thanks Andrew

[Snowdrop 68]

Hi Andrew,

AA in UK usually means Anodised Aluninium.

The LSSR badge is definitely AA and not one of the heavier copies.

Cheers, Bill