Hi-Vis Rank

[Bill A]

Schedules / appendicies of approved badges are attached to the CF Dress Instr.

[Hussar100]

What about my suggestion that colonels may have two changes of dress items whilst in tenure?

[Bill A]

Never heard of that practice, and to my knowledge dress practices in Canada have been in a state of constant turmoil for at least the last 30 years. Change comes so fast that it is nearly impossible to keep up with the authorized practices.

[Hussar100]

This is a long standing practice in the BA. What we need is an officer to tell us.

[Bill A]

"Asking an officer" made me smile. Thanks, I needed that. Most of the dress errors or incorrect practices are initiated by officers who either misunderstand, misinterpret, ignore or simply go in their own direction on dress. After the months I have spent researching archive docs, it is often the officers who are the source of the problems that senior authorities are dealing with.
It is difficult to explain the impact that unification and now de-unification has had on the Canadian forces. Comparisons with other nations forces are tricky and one should not assume a parallel practice. Canadian army dress has been drifting away from British practices since the 1950's, and though there are a lot of similarities the traditions are not directly comprable.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally Posted by colin 17

The Hi-Vis Drum Majors rank slip on has not been worn by the CH of O and we don't even have any. There are Low-Vis ones but are only worn occasionally.

The CH of has been wearing blue facings for maybe 30 years or so but up till a couple of years ago didn't have any connection to Royalty.

The Vandoos wear bearskins. Their tradition is of a fusilier Regt, The Royal Welsh Fusilier who wear Sealskin Busbies. They have infantry pattern cuffs but wear a bearskin, did DHH ever ask them about that?

The RCN says it is the senior service but were started in 1910. Lots of Army Regiments are way older than that and before anyone goes into "they take their traditions from the RN" Why cant the Army do the same.

Probably out of DHH's scope but why do Police wear Infantry Sergeants sashes?

Colin

There is an armoured regiment in Calgary that was an infantry regiment until approximately 1941 (including "Infantry (Tank)") when it converted to armour that for some reason persists in having cavalry traditions today despite never ever having had a horse. I believe they are not the only one to do this.

[colin 17]

Yes, that really doesn't make much sense. Colin

[Hussar100]

Originally Posted by Michael Dorosh

There is an armoured regiment in Calgary that was an infantry regiment until approximately 1941 (including "Infantry (Tank)") when it converted to armour that for some reason persists in having cavalry traditions today despite never ever having had a horse. I believe they are not the only one to do this.

I believe that proves my point. Successive colonels have obviously introduced cavalry dress traditions which have persisted until the entire regiment bears a strong resemblance.

[ddaydodger]

Originally Posted by Hussar100

I believe that proves my point. Successive colonels have obviously introduced cavalry dress traditions which have persisted until the entire regiment bears a strong resemblance.

Not really. After the war the Royal Canadian Armoured Corps, which now consisted of mostly ex-cavalry regiments, sat and determined that the new corps would adopt cavalry dress and traditions. The original 6 tank regiments were all Militia, and outnumbered by the senior ex-cavalry regiments, saw their infantry traditions and history replaced by the “new” cavalry traditions. This actually started early, when the cavalry were deemed obsolete and converted to Infantry(Tank), they quickly dropped the Infantry title, changed private to trooper, changed company to squadron, etc. Shortly thereafter the Canadian Armoured Corps was founded. The other problem for the original 6 Tank regiments is that they get an influx of officers and NCO’s retired from the Regular Force who bring their cavalry traditions with them and force them onto the regiment, not bothering to learn their new regiments history. It doesn’t help that the school in Gagetown perpetuates the myth of how armoured “evolved” from the cavalry.

[Hussar100]

Originally Posted by ddaydodger

Not really. After the war the Royal Canadian Armoured Corps, which now consisted of mostly ex-cavalry regiments, sat and determined that the new corps would adopt cavalry dress and traditions. The original 6 tank regiments were all Militia, and outnumbered by the senior ex-cavalry regiments, saw their infantry traditions and history replaced by the “new” cavalry traditions. This actually started early, when the cavalry were deemed obsolete and converted to Infantry(Tank), they quickly dropped the Infantry title, changed private to trooper, changed company to squadron, etc. Shortly thereafter the Canadian Armoured Corps was founded. The other problem for the original 6 Tank regiments is that they get an influx of officers and NCO’s retired from the Regular Force who bring their cavalry traditions with them and force them onto the regiment, not bothering to learn their new regiments history. It doesn’t help that the school in Gagetown perpetuates the myth of how armoured “evolved” from the cavalry.

Aha, that is very interesting and informative. I thank you very much for taking the time and trouble.

So do we have any Canuck RAC officers or retired officers as members who could perhaps answer the question? Do Colonels of CRAC units have the right to introduce dress changes during their time in command?

[servicepub]

Colonels do not have a right to introduce dress changes during their tenure. Although this was the case, unofficially and not endorsed by HQ, in the 1880s with some units 'going off the reservation' through to the 1930s, it was not supported or endorsed by HQ.
Dress Regulations (for officers) and clothing instructions (for ORs) have always been strictly documented following the introduction of the Militia Act of 1855. This established that uniforms and arms would be provided.
In 1862 a survey was undertaken of all units in Upper and Lower Canada (today Ontario and Quebec, respectively) to determine what was being worn. Needless to say, no two regiments were alike - in some cases not even similar. The Department of Militia and Defence then undertook a program to provide Scarlet uniforms for Infantry, Blue for Artillery and Green for Rifles and issued instructions on their wear and upkeep. In the late 1880s, as Canadian units established formal alliances with British regiments, many regimental distinctions were introduced. Each of these required approval from M&D.
M&D issued increasingly extensive Dress Regs from 1882 and most quiffs had been formalised in the 1907 DR. Skipping over the First World War, there was an update in 1924 and a major overhaul in the early 1930s to take into account the re-organization of the Militia. The 1932 DR surprisingly did not include the Infantry as (now known as) National Defence Headquarters could not get the many Commanding Officers to respond to surveys asking for uniform detail. I located the drafts for the Infantry and reviewed the archival documents. In many cases regiments had adopted a badge, device or complete uniform without regard to the 1907/1924 instructions.
Skipping over the Second World War (and the related 1943 War Dress Regulations) the Canadian Army issued the 1953 Dress Instructions.
Since then, variations have cropped up - introduced by CO's or Base Commanders - but none is official and, when discovered, were usually ordered out of wear by NDHQ.
By unification in 1968 - and the significant change to officers being issued their uniforms vice purchasing them, all lee-way for COs to introduce changes had disappeared.

[ddaydodger]

Anyone can introduce changes to dress; the introduction of the white maple leaf jump wing was started by a Corporal. My regiment has just changed shoulder titles, brass and cloth for DEU. But it must go thru the proper process, thru the chain of command, approval from DHH, and approval of the Colonel Commandant of the corps (a administrative organization, not a tactical one). For us that was the Colonel Commandant of the RCAC.

[Bill A]

There is no such thing as the RAC in Canada. It is the Royal Canadian Armoured Corps.

[Hussar100]

Originally Posted by Bill A

There is no such thing as the RAC in Canada. It is the Royal Canadian Armoured Corps.

Sorry mate I got it the wrong way round. I referred to it as the Canadian Royal Armoured Corps using the abbreviation CRAC.

What you're really saying though is that there is an RAC in Canada - I just got the terminology slightly wrong.

We all get a bit pedantic like that at times - me included.

[ddaydodger]

"By unification in 1968 - and the significant change to officers being issued their uniforms vice purchasing them.."

All ranks had the option of purchasing the CF uniform in a heavier weight when it was introduced in 1969, at no cost to the public. I have only seen officer uniforms of this style. Also officers commisioned prior to 1 Nov 1968 were entitled to a $200.00 grant to purchase the new CF uniform ensemble. Also officers and men of the Reserve Force could purchase their uniforms from CANEX or commercial outlets, but would not be reimbursed.

This thread has gone way off topic!