Seaforth "L" badge Pt.2

[kammer]

Pte. Ferguson did go overseas. In fact he was killed in action on 21 July 1943 in Italy. The post card was taken in Vancouver B.C.

[Voltigeur]

AAhhhh my dear kammer, should have said that at the beginning. To have the whole story we should have a look at his service record and understand why he is still in Canada (because of his 1st Bn. serial No. as Bill noted) and why still in November 1941 he does not have a Seaforth/Canada title. So many questions, so few answers.
Jo

[Bill A]

Hi kammer, Do you have Ferguson's personnel file? The date he was sent overseas will be in his documents.

[kammer]

I do not yet have his service papers. The regimental history states that Ferguson served with the unit overseas starting on 26 June 1942. All of this is really quite irrelevant. By posting the original picture all I was trying to show that the 1923 authorized badge was actually worn.

[Bill A]

Hi kammer, Thanks for the image of the badge being worn. You have provided a key piece of information. The date he was taken on strength with the Seaforth's overseas goes a long way to clarify the discussion about the use of their insignia. And that is important.
If he was in Canada in 1941, he must have been serving with the reserve battalion. The 2nd Battalion only wore slip-ons during the war and from your image, also wore the £/stag pattern badge. It proves that the 2nd Battalion had the badge on issue. However, that does not resolve the question of the active service Seaforth battalion wearing the £/ stag badge. The other image indicates that it may not have been worn overseas.

[kammer]

I do not think they wore the 1923 badge overseas. I remember reading somewhere that there was a shortage of the well known Seaforth badge and they issued later enlistees with the 1923 badge. When these people reached overseas they were told to cut out the "L and Coronet". This is quite adequatley shown in the news clipping of Pte. Ross whose cleary wearing one of the cut out badges.

[Voltigeur]

kammer, some informations that I have already posted before, taken from the Seaforth's history by Prof. Reginald Roy,UBC.
In the chapter "On Guard in England" the author says: <<....Another small but welcome item was the issue of the "imperial' cap badge with a square of the MacKensie tartan to set it off>>. (This in Jan.'40)

Also, in the same chapter,as a note at the bottom of the page he adds <<.....About a year after the unit had been in Great Britain (about late 1941) two additional distinguishing marks were added to the men's uniform. One was the cloth shoulder badge with "Seaforth Canada" embroidered in buff on a dark blue background. The other was a two-and-a-half square decal of the MacKensie tartan with the regimental cap badge imposed on it. That was pasted on the left side of the steel helmet.>>

Jo

[Bill A]

Jo, Checking the chronology, the issue of the cloth shoulder titles would have been late 1940 or early 1941. (The Seaforth's having landed on December 31, 1939.) This is in line with the order in the fall of 1940, allowing the adoption of embroidered titles by 1 CID in the UK. Thanks for pointing that out, one more tidbit of information for the cloth shoulder title research.

[Voltigeur]

Bill, you are right on the title thing. I took the year 1940 as a starting date since the unit came in late 1939 (I would venture that by December 31 the year was pretty much finished.)I should have put in italics the "about late 1941" it would have been more precise.
Jo