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#31
12-02-12, 08:53 PM
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Bill,
As WJ Miller mentioned it is from faces of war. If you haven't checked out the database, it is great. A little limited in content but very easily searchable with some awesome pics. So is it clear that there was lance corporals in rifle regiments? Albert, thanks for the info. When I posted the pic I was unaware of the meaning of the monument. What is the story surrounding your family member during the war? cheers, Roberto 
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#32
12-02-12, 09:27 PM
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Hi Roberto,
I have added a few pictures of the monument, the first one is taken during the construction of the monument, you can see the Plaque which is also in your picture plus a close up of the plaque (picture 3). Picture 2 is a picture of the monument as it is today. My family member was callad Hendrik Brouwer, he was a member of the local KP (knop ploeg = armed arm of the resistance, they used to carry out sabotage ,attacks and robberies in order to get food stamps etc. He was arrested early in 1944 and was taken to Arnhem prison. Later he was moved to the concentration camp in Vucht, where he was executed on the 4th of September 1944. Albert.
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when we forget the past we are doomed to repeat it
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#34
13-02-12, 04:15 PM
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As usual Ed has to cause controversy by voicing his opinion on “go buy a book” he mentions that Geoff is “playing the fourm” which is incorrect. Geoff is simply asking the right questions and wants feedback on this item, which I think is why we have fourms like this, not to point fingers and accuse others.
It seems as soon as someone has a question about anything Ed thinks it’s a conspiracy or a dealer trying to solicit information to bump up a price, which is contradicting himself as he is an author of military collectables himself. The next time he states “go buy a book” insert the phrase “I want more money”. Frankly I was sick and tired of him and Michael Dorosh on the CSC fourm always playing this card, too bad they have Infiltrated this fourm. Last edited by Bill A; 13-02-12 at 04:44 PM.
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#35
13-02-12, 04:42 PM
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Just a reminder to all that the Forum is for the discussion of badges an insignia. Please focus the discussion on the material, and not the people.
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Res ipsa loquitur Last edited by Bill A; 13-02-12 at 09:28 PM.
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#36
13-02-12, 07:06 PM
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Final Conclusions
I would love to get the final conclusions on this BD. So far it is fairly split on whether this was a put together BD with original parts or a wartime BD.
So far I can tell you that: - No insignia have been on this BD before - The regimental titles are wartime made, canadian and hand sewn with red thread. All negative to UV and the thread passes burn test. - The div patch is a nice canvas patch showing good age and is hand sewn but is slightly off center - The rank chevrons are also hand sewn red thread. They are placed higher than regulation - It is clear that the same person placed the badges on the tunic from the stitching style - My thoughts regarding placement is that it frankly does not fit to outside of the norm. I have seen another RR BD with chevron way to low... and a significant amount of badges are not on BDs exactly at regulation. I have attached all photos I have. I would love peoples final conclusions and their thought process! Bill, My apologies, I will credit my photos from now on. Albert, Thanks for the info. I have sent you a PM. Roberto Last edited by Roberto T; 13-02-12 at 07:25 PM.
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#37
13-02-12, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
If one looks at the book Muskets to Missiles, IIRC, there is a fine LAC photo of a Hasty P coming back to Canada at the end of the war with his 8th Army flash proudly sewn to his epaulette. Plenty of other photos scattered through various books of crooked rank badges, divisional flashes too high or low, CANADA badges missing, etc. This was after the war during the period of 'smartening up'. You would think the rank badges would be sewn on according to the regulations, and I'm sure the RSMs would have loved for it to be that way, but the truth is, they often weren't. One could write a book about how poorly the headdress was worn, but that's another topic. There is no way I would ever invalidate an item's authenticity based on its adherence to regulations, and I have to believe experienced collectors would discount any advice to do the same.
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canadiansoldiers.com Last edited by Michael Dorosh; 13-02-12 at 07:49 PM.
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#38
13-02-12, 09:39 PM
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Another high striped tunic
High and tight, like the Marines...
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#39
13-02-12, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
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canadiansoldiers.com
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#40
13-02-12, 11:17 PM
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Not sure what is meant by "regulation" in these posts? The "official" spacing for the shoulder titles, nationality titles and formation patches changed over the course of the war, so we need to know what time period is in question. Early on, the patches were higher on the sleeve, and then moved down.
The tunic looks like a summer khaki drill tunic?
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Res ipsa loquitur
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#42
14-02-12, 01:06 PM
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Roberto.... Your indecision is quite something to watch. You know that all the parts are correct, that the tunic itself is dated 0.k. , that the thread is right.... but you are asking tanker Mike and Bill to provide you assurance that this came from a veteran and is not made up. That's impossible.....they can't tell you that... they have told you the parts are correct..... Now I happen to know Geoff personally and I have also seen his collection first hand. He spends alot of time beating the bushes for good legit items . He is a specialist in Saskatchewan items and has tunics to all the Sask Regiments in his personal collection. .... He would drive 200 miles north of Prince Albert to purchase a tunic like this one.... I know he would NEVER make one up as it is not in his character... he has integrity.
Now he has picked this tunic and with all his expertise gained from 30 years of collecting he thinks it's good.You have bought it. If you aren't happy with it send it back. It's as simple as that... the fact you can return it with no hassles is another indicator that it is good as Geoff stands by what he sells. But realize this... if you are collecting tunics what you have right now is as good as it gets for most of the situations you can buy into. The only other way is to only buy tunics directly from the veteran himself or from the vet's family.
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#43
14-02-12, 01:48 PM
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Jim,
I realize everything you said. Post war sewn tunics do not have the same historical significance, value or desired place in my collection. To me, this is not a BD that was clearly put together.. ....As a learning point, however, I would like to know why certain others concluded this was post war sewn.
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#44
14-02-12, 02:14 PM
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Hi Roberto, As has been indicated, the only one that has to be satisfied with this uniform is you. I think you have all the evidence that is needed for an evaluation. There is certainly lots to chew over in the thread. But in the end you are the one purchasing the lot, and as Jim says, we can't make that an iron clad decision for you.
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Res ipsa loquitur
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#45
14-02-12, 02:32 PM
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As Michael Dorosh wrote:
There are far too many photos of soldiers in the Canadian Army in the Second World War wearing uniforms that wildly diverged from 'book' practice to make anyone believe that regulations were rigidly adhered to 100% of the time. Just check this photo of an A&SHofC. http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/d...oviqqavs023t31 Just my two cents to this debate. Jo
__________________
"There truly exists but one perfect order: that of cemeteries. The dead never complain and they enjoy their equality in silence." - “There are things we know that we know,” “There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we do not know we don't know.” Donald Rumsfeld, before the Iraqi Invasion,2003. Age is something that doesn't matter, unless you are a cheese.
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