South African Army WW1 & WW2

[sabrigade]

My experience is that the archives provide only the very basic details and that they also take a very long time to provide information on South African servicemen.

The archive per member, usually consists of a set of personal cards, a personal file and a medical file.

The amount of detail you require will determine what information you will need too request.

Medal citations may be held at a seperate department and building in Pretoria(if they are available).

Some earlier files regarding previous service in the South African Mounted Rifles and earlier South African police forces require specialist and professional researchers who know where and what they are looking for.

There is also a "seller" available on the South African version of ebay who provides copies of the service cards at very reasonable prices.

I would recommend that you approach a professional reseracher and provide him/her with your requirements.

[johnG]

Thanks for that info Arthur; terrific stuff, and thanks to all the help I have been given on this forum I reckon I can put together a talk on the subject. Just one thing I still have to check out is if any bodies were recovered and if they are buried here in Southampton

The newsletter article mentions the 'South African National Museum of Military History'. Is that the same museum as the superb one, near the zoo on Jan Smuts Avenue, Johannesburg. I went there several times and enjoyed every visit. Great, and thought provoking display of a Spitfire at the entrance - complete with bullet embedded in its windscreen (if 'windscreen' is the right word), I wonder if it is still there.

[Traist]

That is the same museum. It is excellent.

[BWEF]

Thanks for all feedback. I will contact sandfdoc and/or a researcher via ebay, as soon as I find the time.

Meanwhile, is it possible to tell the soldiers original unit from the number? This can be done for the British army:

http://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/mm/...ce_numbers.htm

Also, does anybody have a list of the letters used with some of the South African numbers?

I have noticed both "C" and "M", which seem to be for the Cape Corps (C for Coloured?)) & Indian & Malay Corps (M for Malay?).

Also, a "V" suffix, which I assume stands for Volunteer? I have noticed this on the numbers of a lot of the troops of the 6th South African Armoured Division buried in Italy.

[sabrigade]

If my memory serves me correct, there are approximately 30 plus prefixes for the Africa Service Medal.

The "V" prefix represents volunteer and is one of the more common types found.

Mr Gordon Bickley, a former stalwart member of the South African Medal Collectors Society, has compiled a list of the prefixes and there are specialist collectors in this field.

One of the most sought after medals is the one with the "SR" prefix for Southern Rhodesia. These were the only medals named in a group to a Rhodesian.

I will try get the full list and will then PM it to you.

[BWEF]

Originally Posted by sabrigade

If my memory serves me correct, there are approximately 30 plus prefixes for the Africa Service Medal.

The "V" prefix represents volunteer and is one of the more common types found.

Mr Gordon Bickley, a former stalwart member of the South African Medal Collectors Society, has compiled a list of the prefixes and there are specialist collectors in this field.

One of the most sought after medals is the one with the "SR" prefix for Southern Rhodesia. These were the only medals named in a group to a Rhodesian.

I will try get the full list and will then PM it to you.

Thanks for the information sabrigade. I look forward to seeing the list of prefixes, if you are able to come up with it.

I assume that it is not possible to identify a South African soldiers original unit from their number? Can you please confirm this, so that I can stop looking for the information.

Regards

[sabrigade]

LIST OF PREFIXES ON WW2 SOUTH AFRICAN CAMPAIGN MEDALS:

Some units will be able to be determined by the force numbers but I think that this would be an exception. I hope the list is of assistance.

(WITH THANKS AND CREDIT TO MR. GORDON BICKLEY)

PREFIXES ON SOUTH AFRICAN MEDALS 1939-45

M Indian & Malay Corps

H Indian & Malay Corps (Hindu)

C Cape Corps

CJ Junior Cape Corps

N Native Military Corps

CN Cape Navy (Coloured personnel serving in the SANF)

F Womans Auxiliary Air Force

W Womans Auxiliary Army Service

WN Womans Auxiliary Navy Service

P South African Permanent Force

ACF Other Ranks serving in the part-time Active Citizen Force including units such as the NVB, SACDC, MEB, R&H Bde (Part Time), etc.

MN Merchant Navy( Merchant Navy personnel did not qualify for
the Africa Service Medal unless they had alsoattested into the UDF and volunteered for service outside South Africa)

ESPC Essential Services Protection Corps (Most ESPC medals do not carry this prefix and have the number only. Number blocks allocated to ESPC were 639640 to 640640 and 700000 upwards. Highest number issued was
705016.

A few ESPC medals carry Company prefixes as follows:-

CT Cape Town ESPC Companies

D Durban

EL East London

PE Port Elizabeth

Rly Railways

NL Natal

NRB Roads ESPC Companies

SARP South African Railways Police (Serving policemen who volunteered to serve outside South Africa)

SAP South African Police Battalions (1st & 2nd)

(SAP) South African Police (Serving policemen who volunteered to serve outside SA) (SAP) is placed after the police number)

SR Southern Rhodesian serving in the South African Forces.

NRV National Reserve Volunteers

N.N. or N/N No Number. (Some N.N. or N/N prefixes have been seen followed by (ACF)) Persons with no military number who applied for WW2 campaign awards. Approximately 80 are recorded. They include, for e.g., Officers of School Cadet Detachments, Medical Officers in Protective Rank, War Correspondents, Chaplains,S.A. Red Cross Personnel, Censors, Railway Movement Control Officers,Campaign Stars to Senior Officers of the R&H Bde. for visits for less than 30 days duration to areas in the “fire zone”, and classified as of unusual importance to actual operations, and a variety of others.

No number Officer in the ACF (Active Citizen Force)

No prefix White male full time volunteers and members of the South African Military Nursing Service

[BWEF]

Thanks very much for going to the trouble of finding the list of South African prefix numbers.

Lets try and find something now!

[johnG]

I know it is a long way ahead, but an outfit I am involved with is putting together its programme fore the rest of this year, and they have bounced a question off me.

Seems that whilst poppies are put on graves of British service personnel, and I hope I got this right, white chrysanths on those of Germans, nobody marks the South African soldiers in Hollybrook Cemetery who died when the ss Mendi went down in 1917 off the Isle of Wight, and I have been asked for a recommendeation as to what should be put on the memorial this year.

My first though of course was of Protea's, but they are not redily available in UK and would probably get 'lifted' by somebody. Please can somebody come up with a suggestion. A wreath of poppies with an appropriate inscription in thre centre is the best I can think of.......but something with a South African tone ?????

Many thanks,

John

[Traist]

I think poppies will be appropriate. What to add for an SA tone? I'm not sure. Regards Andrew

[johnG]

Thank's Traist. I too favour the idea of poppies, and am thinking of suggesting a wreath of popies with a centre of card - laminated against the weather - bearing the SA General Service Badge, and approriate words. How does that sound to you.

Regards

John

[Traist]

I think that it will look good and be correct. Regards Andrew

[johnG]

Thanks Andrew, your advice is very much appreciated and I will make my recommendation accordingly.
Regards,
John

[Traist]

It is a pleasure.

[BWEF]

Originally Posted by johnG

A wreath of poppies with an appropriate inscription in thre centre is the best I can think of.......but something with a South African tone ?????

Many thanks,

John

John

You are probably best going with the wreath of poppies, plus the suggested Springbok. Maybe you can make sure it has the correct motto for WW1?

As I know to my cost the poppies sold in South Africa are imported from England. I collect poppies, and managed to source some poppies from a South African collector. I eagerly opened the envelope, and found that they were English poppies, exactly the same as I could have got on my local High Street.

Out of interest I attach a scan of another type of South African poppy. I very much doubt that you could source enough to make a wreath.

This poppy is made from small beads. I was told that beadwork is an old Zulu craft, and that these were made to order for the Transvaal Scottish.