Royal Naval button - capt./commander type.

[OldBuick]

hi, I found a 1837 - 1843 Royal Naval capt./commander button, while detecting
I was hoping to get some idea on how rare it is, and if it would warrant professional cleaning. The backmark reads "Firmin & Son, 153 Strand London".

I will be holding onto it, as it was found on family land that dates back to that time. So I am also curious on what I should do to ensure it doesn't deteriorate any further.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[OldBuick]

Here is a photo of the button.

upload image online

[Cribyn]

Hello OldBuick

I am afraid I know little about Royal Navy buttons (not my area of interest) but if I make an incorrect statement I am sure someone will leap in to correct me!

As far as my limited knowledge goes, this roped edge, Victorian crown over anchor design is a fairly standard button for RN officers in this period and turns up on ebay and elsewhere quite frequently. I doubt very much that it would be worth having professionally cleaned. I am sure this would cost a lot more than the button is worth, although it may be worth it to you if there is some definite family link.

Hopefully someone else will come along and now tell you that this is a very rare button indeed!

Regards
Roger

[Chacal]

Hi OldBuick

I also know little about RN buttons but I think yours is in pretty good shape for something that may have been in the ground for c.100 years plus. looks as if you've given it a gentle clean, I would do no more myself, especially if it may be of family interest. Nice find - I'm hoping to get back into detecting again sometime.

Graham

[btns]

It is the 1843-1891 version. Good quality originals are easy to find. Dug versions are not in demand, unless they have a rare backmark.
You can put acid free vaseline on it to keep it as it is.

[OldBuick]

Originally Posted by btns

It is the 1843-1891 version. Good quality originals are easy to find. Dug versions are not in demand, unless they have a rare backmark.
You can put acid free vaseline on it to keep it as it is.

Thanks for the help, I'm not disputing you identification of the button as I know very little about them, I was just of the impression mine is the high dome version.

[IMG] image ru[/IMG]

Thanks again, and thank you to everyone else that have taken the time to reply.
Cheers

[benjum]

Might be of interest....

http://www.colchestertreasurehunting...%20buttons.htm

http://www.angelfire.com/wa/dianaspa...itishNavy.html


b.

[btns]

Your identification series is new to me:
1837-1843 high dome
1843-1891 flat profile

I am using "The Dress of Naval Officers" by W.E. May, National Maritime Museum, HMSO 1966. It has on page 40:
- 1827-1843
- 1843-1891
There is no distinction in height.
I think myself high concave is 3rd quarter 19th century onwards.
Firmin & Sons is pre 1875, Firmin & Sons Ld post 1875.
Attached is a scan, all buttons predate yours.

[OldBuick]

Originally Posted by btns

Your identification series is new to me:
1837-1843 high dome
1843-1891 flat profile

I am using "The Dress of Naval Officers" by W.E. May, National Maritime Museum, HMSO 1966. It has on page 40:
- 1827-1843
- 1843-1891
There is no distinction in height.
I think myself high concave is 3rd quarter 19th century onwards.
Firmin & Sons is pre 1875, Firmin & Sons Ld post 1875.
Attached is a scan, all buttons predate yours.

Thanks for the help.

I got my information from Tim Burt of Hamwick House and CSMMI.
Who was a very kind man in taking the time out to help ID it for me.

As I didn't send him a side profile, he highlighted in red the possible years. See the attached pic taken from his email. The picture is from his book on RN buttons and their history.

I took it upon myself to declare it as the high domed (1837-43) version considering it has a high dome.

[OldBuick]

The other thing that leads me to the earlier date is the site it was found and the history of the site.
The button may not be that scarce, but the inland Australian location it was found has ties to the ship "HMS Beagle" that reached Australia in 1843 I believe.

Unfortunately it can never be confirmed (that I know of) but that is the logical explanation of the origins of the button

[btns]

Originally Posted by OldBuick

The other thing that leads me to the earlier date is the site it was found and the history of the site.
The button may not be that scarce, but the inland Australian location it was found has ties to the ship "HMS Beagle" that reached Australia in 1843 I believe.

Unfortunately it can never be confirmed (that I know of) but that is the logical explanation of the origins of the button

The Beagle left England in 1837. The officers would have had the 1827 design on their coats.