‘Die struck’ & ‘Die cast’ or ‘Hollow die struck’ & ‘Semi-solid die struck’!?

['Ticker' Riley]

Hi CB

Many thanks for your interesting contributions to this thread, including your latest one. As you say, given the three dimensional quality of the stag’s head a two piece construction is necessary, and it would certainly make sense for the head to be made by casting in such circumstances.

Best regards

Martin

[Neil s]

Seaforth Highlanders
I left these out at first as I have doubts about the parts belonging together
This was bought together many years ago the crown has one thistle hallmark
the scroll marked solid sterling they seem to belong the lugs are a good match
no marks on the stags head I am sure it's silver but copper lugs
IMG_20220312_121715.jpgIMG_20220312_121654.jpg


This is hallmarked 1995 to late for seaforths I suspect it's queens own Highlanders with the wrong crown
IMG_20220312_121615.jpgIMG_20220312_121527.jpg


These are odd parts picked up but the Scroll is die struck by a known badge maker
IMG_20220312_121452.jpgIMG_20220312_121418.jpg

[Rob Miller]

I had thought that Officers OSD badges were cast but it always troubled me that often the front die was identical to a die stamped other ranks badge from the same maker.

Is it a question of materials? Gilding metal presses into thin badges well but bronze doesn't?

Rob

[cbuehler]

Indeed, these badges are so frequently found with missing components or with replacements. Badges such as these were so often made by jewelers other than the well known badge and insignia makers.
The top one looks like it may be all of the same make, and all of it is a casting.
The middle has what appears to be a die stamped coronet/cipher and scroll with a cast stag, and is quite modern as mentioned.
The bottom are not matching parts. The coronet/cipher is a casting, and the Ludlow scroll appears to be a solid, or semi solid, die struck piece, made in the manner of most OSD badges.

CB

['Ticker' Riley]

Hi Rob

My understanding was that very few ‘bronze’ O.S.D. badges are actually made of bronze, but rather they are ‘bronzed’ in the sense they are coated to give a finish that mimics bronze. The Forum’s Glossary defines “Bronze” as being a “Brass badge that has had a brown synthetic coating applied to give the badge a patinated bronze appearance. Most frequently encountered on officers badges.”

Having said that, I believe I have read somewhere, possibly here on Form, or was told, that the first O.S.D. badges were made of actual bronze, though I’ve no proof of this myself, at least in the badges I have. If this was indeed the case then, presumably, this would have been those produced in 1902, and that such badges would, therefore, be much heavier that the later ones.

According to my source officers’ badges like these were die struck and made “using a thicker gauge metal”, which, apparently needed “a heavier gag and a number of blows with annealing between to get the design fully up on the stamping.” It seems that “Gags” were “(holders) of varying weights” in which was suspended the “Force”, this being what was “struck into the face of the hardened die between which the 'stamping' metal part to be stamped is placed”, it being “made to provide the appropriate back”. It seems that “The force is 'eased' (less definition) for semi solid or solid struck badges”, i.e. officers’ badges.

My informant also described the process of “Annealing” as being “If the design stamped onto the metal stamping is not up in the die (i.e. hasn't been pressed between the die and the force sufficiently to be impressed with the full design) then the stamping is heated up with an air and gas blow torch to soften the metal. The stamping is then reinserted into the die and stamped again.” All of this has been enlightening to me, as I didn’t know anything about their actual manufacture until this chap kindly took the time to explain it to me!

Best regards

Martin

[cbuehler]

I also understand that many OSD badges had a finish applied and were not genuine bronze metal.
I think that the badges which are actually bronze have that certain natural looking lighter color, and not the dark chocolate or burnt umber sort of finish which is obviously applied.

CB

PS, a King's Own collar and 11H cap to illustrate what I "think" (dangerous...) I am talking about.

[atillathenunns]

Fantastic, there are a lot of members on this forum who believe the world is flat and all badges with flat backs are die cast.
When it come to LRDG badges, it is important to understand the difference between die struck, die cast and cast LRDG badges.

[Rob Miller]

Thank you Martin, that very interesting, portable spectrometers are getting cheaper and more common, it would be interesting to see what alloys are used in these badges.

Rob