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  #16  
Old 04-02-08, 10:03 AM
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Howard,

It is at milcol.net in the Britsh badge section.

http://www.milcol.net/forum/index.php?act=home

Alan
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  #17  
Old 04-02-08, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Blakeman View Post
I honestly don't know, never been near one before. I'll make a few enquiries with a dealer I correspond with and see if he's ever had one and if he knows about the sweatholes.
Thanks Kieth,
Await your reply.
Regards
Bantam
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  #18  
Old 05-02-08, 05:51 PM
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My own experiences of collecting to Irish regiments had led me to conclude that there is no simple yes/no answer to whether a badge needs to have sweat holes to be genuine.

As has been mentioned earlier in the thread, I too believe that you have to look at a badge in its entirety. I especially pay particular attention to the fitment, is the slider correct for the period, the position and type of loops etc.

I believe that you have to acquire as much knowledge as possible from your own and others research and I compile a library of images of known good and bad examples to try to guide my own thinking. That is why a forum like this is invaluable - especially if you are outside of the U.K.

The question of whether a badge of a particular period should have sweat holes is clearly down to brazing techniques used at the time, the badge design and the processes used by particular manufacturers. I have never found clear information on these subjects.

I have seen brazing used in badges that can be reliably dated to the late 1930's (Inniskilling Fusiliers flag right as well as the horizontal collars) and I have seen pre 1922 badges without them that are considered genuine.

My experiences have led me to the following conclusions regarding Irish regiments Bi-Metal badges

Victorian Examples - as Keith mentioned elsewhere I too have come to the conclusion that all Victorian examples to Irish regiments should have sweat holes

4DG - I would not touch without sweat holes
5L - Depends on the design , you need to know your subject good examples are known with and without sweat holes. you need to consider the lance crossing, pennon backs, fitment etc.
6D - I would not touch without sweat holes
8H - Obviously a long lived design in KC so possible to find them with and without sweat holes behind the crown
Munsters & Leinsters - I would not touch without a sweat hole or pinned construction (in some cases)
Dublins - I would only buy looped examples with sweat holes but some good ones with sliders only have the holes at the back onf the animals and not on the scroll
Skins and Irish Fusiliers , long lived and possible to find badges with and without sweat holes, but for pre 1927 Skins I believe all should have sweat holes.

As always, as I learn more I am open to changing my thoughts.

Last edited by John Mulcahy; 05-02-08 at 05:53 PM. Reason: corrected spelling mistakes.
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  #19  
Old 05-02-08, 06:44 PM
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Default 5th Lancers

I would not touch a 5th lancers where the crossing point of the lances is visible, sweat holes or not.
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  #20  
Old 05-02-08, 07:30 PM
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I would agree with you 100% on the lance crossing for all O/Ranks badges.

The one intriguing thing is the illustration of the officer's forage cap badge in the 1901 dress regulations. In this image the two lances can be seen to cross from the front.

I do not have access to my images to post it here right now and I have not been able to handle a silver & gilt officers badge to confirm if the real thing has this feature.
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  #21  
Old 06-02-08, 12:27 AM
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Default Cant find it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardiffbloke View Post
Alan,

MCN Forum?? Do you have a link?

Howard
Alan

I am obviously a half wit as i have trawled the whole section looking for a KDG heading to no avail.... can you send me the 'direct' link?

Howard (The Half Wit)
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  #22  
Old 06-02-08, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean michael cronin View Post
Time to open that old can of worms, the brazing slot. Many of us have bi metal badges constructed by this method, and many repro men are knocking out their latest fakes with these slots or holes. In the cut and thrust of business, tendering for contracts to supply the Army's badges, I find it hard to believe that most manufacturers went to all the trouble of punching out brazing slots in the rear of the badges to allow the braze and the flame to reach the attached metal on the face of the badge, when other manufacturers simply clamped the two things together and applied heat. Or is it the case that modern technology has produced brazes that do not require as much heat ?
I think that the term 'brazing holes' is a little misleading here, suggesting that the adheasion of the 2 pieces is made from the back of the badge.A truer term is 'sweat holes' that are there to allow any excess of the fixing solder & gases produced by the process to escape easily,rather than from the sides, that would be possibly messy & could result in movement between the 2 surfaces.
This is as it has been explained to me by those in the badge production industry,anyway.
Indeed ,they were clamped in position first, a measured amount of the solder having been attached to the back of the top piece first,then heated to affect the join, ie: heat + pressure = 'sweating'. Later technical advances in the types of solders used & processes,etc. has negated the need to work in this way. Am also informed that in the early days,manufacturers often made their own solders & could vary a good deal, in quality & possibly explaining why some carried on this process for longer.?
Hope this helps ?
Cheers !
Steve

Last edited by dragonz18; 06-02-08 at 08:35 AM.
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  #23  
Old 06-02-08, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardiffbloke View Post
Alan

I am obviously a half wit as i have trawled the whole section looking for a KDG heading to no avail.... can you send me the 'direct' link?

Howard (The Half Wit)

Howard this is it.

http://www.milcol.net/forum/index.ph...13&hl=dragoons

Beaconview is the ex-QDG chap.

Alan
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  #24  
Old 12-02-08, 12:15 AM
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Default Brazing Holes --- Again!!

Really sorry to bring this old chestnut up again, and i did see the answer the other week on one of the other threads but cant find it now!!

What year (roughly) did the badge manufacturers stop using brazing holes to attach central sheilds to BM badges? I know that almost all WW1 badges should have them but later issues?
Would they have stopped using them by say 1930 -1935?

Howard
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  #25  
Old 12-02-08, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardiffbloke View Post
Really sorry to bring this old chestnut up again, and i did see the answer the other week on one of the other threads but cant find it now!!

What year (roughly) did the badge manufacturers stop using brazing holes to attach central sheilds to BM badges? I know that almost all WW1 badges should have them but later issues?
Would they have stopped using them by say 1930 -1935?

Howard

Hi Howard,

Know the thread you're thinking of, I believe the suggested date was 1927 (but that must be rough as a badgers arse). God knows when it first became possible to braze without holes but it's a guess as good as any, and again it comes down to different manufacturers... I've a RIF with braze holes and a Dowler slider, which (the maker) apparently makes it WW2 or after so they were still using them then.

Cheers,

Luke
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