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  #31  
Old 08-01-15, 04:16 PM
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Hussar100 Hussar100 is offline
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Longshanks, whilst I agree that Enoch Powell was right I think the day will pass when Islam (or any other faith) has such a considerable hold on our communities because the children of immigrants will be British and many will lose ingrained prejudices. The remainder will stand out more.

What I'm more concerned about is the activities of radicalised Muslims outside the UK. There will be no peace until there is democracy in all Islamic states. The concept of a single party state is inherently wrong but the ideals of the middle east encourage individuals to fight for power to attain such a situation. The international community must help to end this.
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  #32  
Old 08-01-15, 04:50 PM
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Last edited by LONGSHANKS; 08-01-15 at 09:07 PM.
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  #33  
Old 08-01-15, 05:05 PM
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Longshanks I never mentioned colour because it is unimportant to me. So is religion. I live in a society where religion has caused so much damage I tend to look down my nose at anyone who raises it as a cause for anything.

No, I put Islam to you simply because it's a fact that most international terrorism since 9/11 has been by Islamic fundamentalists whose basis for their attacks is spurious at best and risible at worst. They attack the developed nations of the world (particularly America) because of what they say is Imperialism but in reality what they're attacking is friendly input and millions of dollars or sterling intended to improve their countries.

North Korea also stands accused although their terrorism is more subtle and I'm not aware of any deaths caused by it but a nation such as their which treats its own people so cruelly and refuses to let them have the freedoms we all accept as normal is so obviously corrupt and stands only to provide luxury for the ruling elite at the expense of the proletariat.

Yes these people are a different colour to us but that wasn't the case when the IRA were attacking us. Those people hurt us because they wouldn't accept the democratic wish of part of their country to secede from a United Ireland but supported the right of Ireland to secede from the UK and Commonwealth. Show me the logic?
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  #34  
Old 08-01-15, 05:26 PM
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Last edited by LONGSHANKS; 08-01-15 at 09:07 PM.
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  #35  
Old 08-01-15, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by LONGSHANKS View Post
Sorry Hussar, my reason in mentioning the colour thing is that I didn't want anyone thinking that was my perspective.

I have to strongly disagree on your point that Islam is attacking us because we are democracies, because we like fast food and allow gay marriage etc etc. They are attacking the west because we want their oil. And in getting it we did what ever, we backed who ever and eventually invaded who ever it took to keep it.

I could go through the chain of events that led to 9/11,( it started with Oil contracts and Iranian president Mohammad Mosaddegh, look him up, which eventually brought us the Iranian revolution) but I can't type all night. But when you invade a country and as I have said above by kicking apart Iraq for example like a wasps nest, and then cry when we get stung by rouge wasps; only cause's consternation to me.
What you're overlooking however is: when we buy oil - we pay for it. It's not our fault those dollars don't end up improving the countries they're paid to.

Sure we've caused problems in many countries in the past over trade but those days are over - not that no shady deals don't go on but they're pretty reduced.

No, if fundamentalists have a problem with us wanting their oil, let them take it up with their own people who we pay money to.

Nor did I say that these Islamists are attacking us because we are democracies; I'm afraid you've misunderstood me on that, just as they've got a severe misapprehension about the developed world and the larger industrial nations.

Their argument is with their own nations - not ours.

EDIT: BTW now that the arse has fallen out of oil prices globally, let's see how the oil producing nations react. The boot is on the other foot now as our dependency lessens and their need for our money rises. Look at Dubai - bankrupt!
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  #36  
Old 08-01-15, 06:03 PM
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"Je suis Charlie"
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  #37  
Old 08-01-15, 06:10 PM
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Last edited by LONGSHANKS; 08-01-15 at 09:08 PM.
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  #38  
Old 08-01-15, 06:26 PM
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Longshanks, despite the esteemed professor's opinion on your timeline I'm afraid I would have some questions but it would take the thread further OT than we already have done so let's agree to disagree eh? We won't solve the problem by exchanging views here.

EDIT: We can start a separate thread to further the discussion without taking this one OT if you want mate?
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Last edited by Hussar100; 08-01-15 at 07:30 PM.
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  #39  
Old 08-01-15, 07:28 PM
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Well, some lively discussion there! Thanks to peter posting the link to "Wiki" which allowed me to refresh my memory of living through events even earlier than those quoted re E.P. (I've even printed off the article) As "Other Topics", we might get into more than we bargained for so perhaps we should follow Hussars hint of discontinuing this particular theme. For me, it's back to hunting for that elusive rare Artillery badge, button or "Thing-a ma-jig" Best regards, D.J.
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  #40  
Old 08-01-15, 08:46 PM
REMEVMBEA1 REMEVMBEA1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hussar100 View Post
Longshanks I never mentioned colour because it is unimportant to me. So is religion. I live in a society where religion has caused so much damage I tend to look down my nose at anyone who raises it as a cause for anything.

No, I put Islam to you simply because it's a fact that most international terrorism since 9/11 has been by Islamic fundamentalists whose basis for their attacks is spurious at best and risible at worst. They attack the developed nations of the world (particularly America) because of what they say is Imperialism but in reality what they're attacking is friendly input and millions of dollars or sterling intended to improve their countries.

North Korea also stands accused although their terrorism is more subtle and I'm not aware of any deaths caused by it but a nation such as their which treats its own people so cruelly and refuses to let them have the freedoms we all accept as normal is so obviously corrupt and stands only to provide luxury for the ruling elite at the expense of the proletariat.

Yes these people are a different colour to us but that wasn't the case when the IRA were attacking us. Those people hurt us because they wouldn't accept the democratic wish of part of their country to secede from a United Ireland but supported the right of Ireland to secede from the UK and Commonwealth. Show me the logic?
As I've said on various occasions and various websites all Muslims aren't evil the same as all Catholics weren't supporters of the IRA but they all get tarred with the same brush by people who don't actually consider all the facts. I know from my 5 tours in NI that many RCs are as opposed to the rebels as most protestants are.
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  #41  
Old 08-01-15, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REMEVMBEA1 View Post
As I've said on various occasions and various websites all Muslims aren't evil the same as all Catholics weren't supporters of the IRA but they all get tarred with the same brush by people who don't actually consider all the facts. I know from my 5 tours in NI that many RCs are as opposed to the rebels as most protestants are.
I absolutely agree with you.

The problem with differences though, in both colour and accent, is that they set a man apart and leave him open to abuse from people who don't have the same colour or accent. On a few occasions it was only my MoD90 which stopped me getting a kicking from my English brethren.

Of course that's not to say that all English people are bad.............
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  #42  
Old 09-01-15, 10:47 AM
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The time has come when it is almost impossible to defend moderate liberal Islam in the face of increasing fundamentalism. I have many Moslem friends but i am saddened by their ostrich like behaviour. If they are not prepared to stand up and be counted then they must accept that "he who is not with me is against me". It is no longer enough to condemn terrorism in private while keeping silent in public.
Eddie
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  #43  
Old 09-01-15, 11:04 AM
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Things seem to have moved on in France today, but, ones wonders how many more innocent people have to suffer as a result of these two brothers cowardly actions.
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  #44  
Old 09-01-15, 11:33 AM
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We should also remember that two of the dead were muslims.
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  #45  
Old 09-01-15, 12:08 PM
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We should also remember that two of the dead were muslims.
That didn't bother their slayers

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