Riots and use of the Armed Forces

[badjez]

The comments that the UK has no permanent 'riot squad' is not totally accurate. For PO purposes all police receive basic shield training whilst in basic training. Further training is purely voluntary, after the first 24 months of service.

Police are then divided into three categories:
Level 3- those who have received no supplementary shield training (too old, CID, unfit or unwilling).
Level 2- those who volunteer for further training received 2 days training per 3 month period. Unless they are being utilised for a PO event (football, demonstrations etc) they do 'normal' duties.
Level 1- permanent teams (Territorial Support Group etc) who have additional training monthly, and undertake mainly PO events, raids, searches and provide the Commissioner was a mobile reserve.

The big difficulty for British police is the need to wear two hats, which are almost diametrically opposed: nice PC plod or Dixon of Dock Green undertaking 'community policing' versus PO animal who the public expect to behave accordingly and simulate the CRS. If I understand correctly, the CRS are permanently involved in PO. In Germany I've been told that all officers go straight to a PO unit for their first two years and learn policing as a sideline. Once their two year stint is over they can be reconditioned into 'normal' policing.

Stephen.

[LONGSHANKS]

Stephen, that's pretty much my point earlier. I do believe my point on the CRS is that they are feared and are used on these type of occasions. I think as you say expecting beat cops to play bad guy when you want them to is not practicable. Have them the next day turn up to a community center and say hi, isn't going to work.

CRS is the way to go, especially as the UK changes demographically and will as over here in the US; experience much upheaval in economic status.

Simon.

[Neil Pearce]

When this quietens down, and I hope it does quickly, then all we need is for some judges to stand up and be counted, rather than just hand out slapped wrists.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/64/section/1

Andy, I couldn't agree more in the meantime Forget about CCTV policing, and go and show them who is boss.

I just hope all those close to these scenes in the UK are OK, and keep safe.

[ebro]

This is a situation if not brought under control very quickly it will become "the norm".
If it is to be brought under control it requires a lot of political action plus a lot of public support for the police on the ground, neither of which seem to be present in any quantity.
The courts also have a big part to play in detering reoffending by making examples of those convicted.
At the moment a lot of people just don't know/ believe that crime does not pay.
Eddie

[Phil2M]

There may well be some asbos handed out HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.........HA

[badjez]

There is a formula that I believe needs to be achieved in order for a peaceful life-

To prevent lawlessness there needs to be a deterrant.
There is no deterrent unless there is an adverse sanction applied to those who contrevene the law.
For the deterrent to work it needs to be enforceable.

Currently there is no fear of the sanction of law as there is no fear of being caught.

Things started to go wrong when police forces became police services.

Stephen.

[jeanpit-frenchy]

before 1989 we use in france motobike riot units "voltigeur motocycliste"

2 policemen on a motocross bike (Engine with cutout).

these units are disbanded after they kill a young student


These units had a big impact .

http://www.ina.fr/economie-et-societ...a-nuit.fr.html

(move at 52 secondes for action..)

[Charlie585]

Apparently we've lost 4000 police officers to cuts in the last year. Maybe their uniforms could be put to good use and lent to the army so they can go and give these individuals a good kicking. The rumour is that is has happened before! (The Miners Strike).

We've sent all our Coppers to London tonight, I've just heard that Southsea pier is on fire, Whoops!

Ry

[LONGSHANKS]

Hi Ry
Yes, trouble is the press would get hold of it as in Ireland back in the day they were call "The Black and Tan's". Maybe want to keep that blend to a minimum; but additional forces are needed, and hopefully this will in general get the government to realize internal security is way more important an expense not to cut back on.

Simon.

[Charlie585]

Sensible words Simon.

I don't know where all this will end but it's not good. It runs parallel to my views on cutting the armed forces, I don't want to re-open that discussion but history has a funny way of punishing us if we fail to learn its lessons.

(Update on Southsea Pier, Not Riot Related)

Ry

[Peter Brydon]

Southsea Pier may not be related to the riots but I suspect that a lot of professional criminals like burgulars,particularly those in rural areas probably think that Christmas has come early this year.

Going back to the possibility of calling in the army,having heard on the Six O Clock news that over the last few days a lot of policemen have been working 20 hour days and police from all over the country have been drafted to London, if the riots continue for some days to come ( and it was reported at least an hour ago that things had already kicked off in Manchester and Salford this evening ) I dont see what alternative the government would have to calling in the troops.

Lets hope it does not come to that and robust policing ( whatever that means ) sorts out the situation.

P.B.

[Tinto]

Hi All,
We are deeply saddened, and angry, at what is happening in Britain at the moment.
I firmly believe that bringing back the old style bobby on the beat (with truncheon) would nip a lot of this nonsense in the bud. Bobbies would have radio contact so that if things did get out of hand, then reinforcements would be sent in.
This idea applies to New Zealand as well.
Tinto

[LONGSHANKS]

I tell you one thing I picked up over my years traveling in Europe (especially France and Spain) and elsewhere in the world; and it may not be some thing the Brit's are historically use to, but I always felt there was an intrinsic fear of police authority in other countries. Which I think as I have said previously may be something that needs to be brought back as the UK changes demographically.

Simon.

[John S.]

As a Canadian watching the riots in London and other cities, I am astounded by the fact that the police don`t seem to be able to be more assetive. Certainly they are on the streets, but I don`t see any hooligans being hit with batons, tear gas being utilized, rubber bullets being fired, etc.
Helicopters are hovering overhead, but it seems that police are only observing from that vantage point- why not drop tear gas onto the rioters until they disperse?
It has been suggested that the Army be called out, especially as the riots are spreading to other cities, and the police resources are being stretched.
If this happens, martial law with a curfew should be imposed, and if the rioters persist in what they are doing, the army should be allowed to pot a few of these birds. After they twitter or blackberry that information among themselves, I`m sure a swift return to law and order would occur.
Just my two cents, for what its` worth.

[Charlie585]

We can't do that John, we might hurt their feelings.

Another reason why this country has become the laughing stock of the modern world. All our traditions along with common sense have been turned on their heads by the bleeding hearts brigade, they were out in force on the radio today. We used to be a bastion of fair play "The British way" and order and discipline followed in close order.

Not any more!

Ry