Rising Sun Badges - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

mule-73k · #1 14-06-11, 06:24 PM

Going through a box of cheap jewellery at a general show, I found these about to be converted. The front of the cap badge had been polished and a new pin stuck on.

Question, it is marked 'General' cannot make out the other writting. I take it that it is a General Plastics badge. Would I be correct in thinking that it may be a WW2 or later badge.

I think that the collar is marked Stokes & Sons, as the '&Sons' is all that readable. Again can I ask what time period?

Thanks,

Dave

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Lancer 17 · #2 15-06-11, 10:47 AM

G'day Dave

I have had a look at Jeff Cossums book on Rising Sun badges and he shows a General Plastics with lettering like yours and lists it as a WW2 issue.

Re the collar badge Jeff lists Stokes & Sons in oxodised, brass and gilt finishes and also a RJ Gaunt & Son (no S) with a gilt finnish.
No periods are given for the collar badges.

I hope that this helps.

Regards

Phil.

mule-73k · #3 15-06-11, 05:04 PM

Hi Phil,

Many thanks for the information, mate. Can I ask you, am I right in thinking that the cap badge had been polished? (Photo 2)

Regarding the collar I can make out 'Melbourne' on the right side of the arch. So Stokes & Sons, yes?

I've just returned from the battle fields of Belgium and Northern France gave me a whole new appreication of what the rising sun badge repersents!

Again many thanks,

Dave

Lancer 17 · #4 19-06-11, 08:23 AM

G'day Dave

Yes the hat badge has either been cleaned with some thing or polished very thoroughly to remove all the blackening, I am finding out how to reblack for another member and will let you know too.

And re the collar yes probably Stokes & Sons Melb, they were a Melbourne maker.

The rising sun was worne by all Aussie diggers in both WW1 and 2, it was worn on the left turn up of the slouch hat. No regt or corps badges were worn, they were only worn by militia units pre war. They are now worn on the front of the slouch hat on the pugerie and the rising sun is still worn on the turn up of the brim. Aussies are fiercly proud of our rising sun badge.

Good to hear of your trip to the wetern front and of your learning experience.

Regards

Phil.

mule-73k · #5 19-06-11, 06:03 PM

Hi Phil,

Again many thanks for all the information on these two badges. And I'm glad I rescued them from that box of 'paste'!
I would be delighted to know how to re-blacken the badge, thanks again.

There is a photo on display in the Passendale Museum showing Australian troops in a large underground bunker, most are wearing badges. But one guy stands out as you can see him wearing a rising sun cap badge and collar set on his uniform, very clearly.

Being collecting 30yrs and have handled loads of rising sun badges, but I never really looked at them. Still learning!

By the way, as an aside. When Ireland became it's own new Free State in 1922, it used a rising sun badge as one of it's emblems! Wonder did we get the idea from you guys?

Lancer 17 · #6 28-06-11, 10:28 AM

G'day Dave

I have had an email from my mate who said that "you would need the right chemicals" but didnt say what they were. He suggested that you paint it black, that would have to be a flat matt black. Sorry thats the best I can do, I hope that it helps.

I dont know about your Irish rising sun badges, I didnt think that you guys got much sun !!

Regards

Phil.

mule-73k · #7 29-06-11, 06:09 PM

Hi Phil,

We do'nt get a much as you guys but we do get some!!

The usage of the rising sun was meant to repersent the new dawn in the nations history!! It was only used for a very short time.

Thanks for the info on restoring the badge. Can I ask you why were Australian troops known as 'digger'?

Dave

slick_mick · #8 29-06-11, 08:08 PM

From Wikipedia:

There are numerous theories about the origin of the term. Before World War I, the term "digger" was widely used in Australasia to mean a miner, and referring to a Kauri gum-digger in New Zealand. Renowned soldier and military historian, Captain Cyril Longmore 44th Battalion AIF, first recorded the Australian troops doing trench digging practice on Salisbury Plain prior to embarking to Turkey and being called 'diggers' by their mates as the origin of the term. Another story for the origin of this term dates it to 25 April 1915, during the Gallipoli campaign. Following the landing at Gallipoli, General Sir Ian Hamilton wrote to General William Birdwood, the commander of the Australian and New Zealand Army Corps (ANZAC), adding in postscript: "P.S.—You have got through the difficult business, now you have only to dig, dig, dig, until you are safe."

However, there is no hard evidence to suggest that Hamilton's message is the reason why digger was applied to ANZAC troops in general. One other theory is the fact that ANZAC troops were especially good at digging tunnels between their own trenches and the enemies, and were regarded by both sides as diggers, one being derogatory and the other more in jest. The job of digging between the trenches was very hard, especially when both sides' diggers met in the tunnels. ANZACS believed that it was a compliment to be referred to as diggers, because it indicated you were good at a very difficult job.

W. H. Downing, in Digger Dialects (1919), a glossary of words and phrases used by Australian personnel during the war, says that Digger was first used to mean a New Zealand or Australian soldier in 1916. It appears to have become popular among New Zealand troops before being adopted by Australians. The word was not in wide use amongst soldiers until 1917.

Mick

Quote:

Originally Posted by mule-73k

Hi Phil,

We do'nt get a much as you guys but we do get some!!

The usage of the rising sun was meant to repersent the new dawn in the nations history!! It was only used for a very short time.

Thanks for the info on restoring the badge. Can I ask you why were Australian troops known as 'digger'?

Dave

mule-73k · #9 30-06-11, 06:04 PM

Many thanks, Mick.

I doing a temporary display for a small county museum here on the Fist War and I want to inclued all Allied troops in it. I thought that including this type of information might just personalize the whole thing for the less informed!

Thanks again,

Dave

Lionheart · #10 02-07-11, 04:40 AM

If I may chime in regarding the blacking of Brass and some other metals. This can be done by removing all trace of exisiting "coatings" and applying "Liver of Sulphur" which adds a black patina to Brass, Silver, Bronze and Copper. You can purchase Liver of Sulphur on eBay in Oz.

mule-73k · #11 05-07-11, 05:30 PM

Thanks Lionheart, did not know that.

Now to see if we can get that stuff here in Ireland.............

Lionheart · #12 05-07-11, 11:29 PM

I know you can buy it on eBay UK so try there.

Old Smelly · #13 08-07-11, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slick_mick

From Wikipedia:

There are numerous theories about the origin of the term. Before World War I, the term "digger" was widely used in Australasia to mean a miner, and referring to a Kauri gum-digger in New Zealand. Renowned soldier and military historian, Captain Cyril Longmore 44th Battalion AIF, first recorded the Australian troops doing trench digging practice on Salisbury Plain prior to embarking to Turkey and being called 'diggers' by their mates as the origin of the term.Mick

Whilst on Salisbury Plain they also cut the rising sun badge into the chalk hill near Codford, not far from where I live. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codford

Lee

mule-73k · #14 09-07-11, 05:31 PM

Excellent!

GMcF · #15 20-07-11, 06:31 PM

Australian miners in the mid 19th C were called diggers. Is that the reason? See Tony Robinsons prog on Australia.

As I'mon te Australian site of the forum can anyone identify this badge found on the Somme at Poziers? It is damaged and folded back on itself - blast rather than tractor I think.

Thanks in advance for your help

GMcF