Help to identify - Royal Navy?

[cman]

Looking for some help to identify this badge. I'm guessing Royal Navy WW2 but would like to hear other more learned opinions. Thanks all.

[Phil2M]

Pre 1952 officers beret badge, Royal Navy

[Guzzman]

Hi

As previously stated this is a King's Crown Royal Navy officers beret badge.

The first berets for RN officers were authorised in May 1945. Initially the beret was only issued to aircrew. The issue of the beret saw the introduction of a special small size 'Beret Badge, Officers (metal)'. This was a reduced scale, two-thirds-sized version of the standard pattern 47 (metal) badge. The badge was given the pattern number 50. It was replaced by a Queen's Crown version in 1952.

Pete

[cman]

thanks for the replies gentlemen!
Pete very informative and just what I was looking for!!!!

[Colin S]

Originally Posted by Guzzman

Hi

As previously stated this is a King's Crown Royal Navy officers beret badge.

The first berets for RN officers were authorised in May 1945. Initially the beret was only issued to aircrew. The issue of the beret saw the introduction of a special small size 'Beret Badge, Officers (metal)'. This was a reduced scale, two-thirds-sized version of the standard pattern 47 (metal) badge. The badge was given the pattern number 50. It was replaced by a Queen's Crown version in 1952.

Pete

What badge did RN officers wear on their berets before the official beret badge was authorised in 1945? I’m thinking of officers in shore based roles such as beachmasters, beach signals etc. I have seen a photo of Patrick Dazell-Jobe, a navy officer in 30 Assault Unit, who seems to be wearing an officer’s beret badge on his green beret before 1945.

[Royal]

FYI, its spelt Dalzel-Job

[cman]

Originally Posted by Colin S

What badge did RN officers wear on their berets before the official beret badge was authorised in 1945? I’m thinking of officers in shore based roles such as beachmasters, beach signals etc. I have seen a photo of Patrick Dazell-Jobe, a navy officer in 30 Assault Unit, who seems to be wearing an officer’s beret badge on his green beret before 1945.

FWIW - I was told it is from a WW2 Commando Officer which is in harmony with Colin's thoughts

[Colin S]

Originally Posted by Royal

FYI, its spelt Dalzel-Job

My mistake - didn’t check the spelling before posting. Thanks for the correction.

[Guzzman]

Morning all

I have no idea what officers badges were being worn on berets prior to 1945. I only know that berets and the small metal cap badges were first officially sanctioned for use by Royal Navy officers in May 1945. Berets may well have been worn prior to that date but if they were it was done unofficially. I notice that you refer to the 'green' beret. This was of course awarded for qualifying as a commando and, as such, was not a Royal Navy beret. A beret is not included in the list of army kit to be issued to naval personnel serving with Combined Operations, although officers had to purchase their own Combined Operations clothing. And all the pictures I have seen of Beachmasters and RN Commando officers show them in RN officers caps, albeit sometimes in khaki. Berets were initially only sanctioned for aircrew as they were the safest form of headgear to wear around a busy flightdeck.

Pete

[Colin S]

Thank you Pete for that update.

I have done further research since my last post and everything seems to confirm what you say. Normal RN caps were worn by Beach units, officers and ratings alike. Judging from photographs, it seems that green berets may have been issued to those RN personnel who passed through the Achnacarry Commando Basic Training Centre but were not worn thereafter. However, I attach a photo which contradicts that general rule.....with interesting cap badge!

RN officers in more secretive units such as 30 AU probably had more leeway and probably used the larger RN officer’s badges, normally used on their peaked caps, when they wore berets. I would expect the same applied for COPPs officers, if they ever wore berets, but have not researched that point.

[Royal]

Here's Patrick Dalzel-Job wearing a green beret and 30 Commando/AU insignia

[sailorbear]

Originally Posted by Royal

Here's Patrick Dalzel-Job wearing a green beret and 30 Commando/AU insignia

Is the beret green though? Patrick never passed or attended the commando course, either at Ardintinny or Achnacarry. He did however complete Pre Parachute Selection and the basic parachute course at Ringway with the Canadians!

[Royal]

Didn't know that.

It doesn't look like a navy blue to me and from what I remember when the idea of reforming 30 Commando was being mooted, 30 Cdo/AU were being touted as a possible model rather than the broader ISTAR remit that it now has. He was touted as an example of the type of RN Cdo officer that the unit would need...

[Colin S]

I’d assumed it was a green beret because of 30 AU also being called 30 Commando and containing RM Commandos, but it could be a khaki beret that he’s wearing - difficult to tell from a black and white photo.

[sailorbear]

Originally Posted by Royal

Didn't know that.

It doesn't look like a navy blue to me and from what I remember when the idea of reforming 30 Commando was being mooted, 30 Cdo/AU were being touted as a possible model rather than the broader ISTAR remit that it now has. He was touted as an example of the type of RN Cdo officer that the unit would need...

It was just an observation, and I certainly cant say he's not wearing a green lid! However, the green beret was and is jealously guarded as only worn by those who've earned it! The development of 30 AU is pretty complicated, especially it was effectively two units, one RN/RM and the other army, which generally operated separately. Many units existed in WW2 which were generally termed commandos, but strictly speaking weren't as they didn't go through the commando course at Achnacarry, such units included the RAF Servicing Cdo, the Combined Ops Bombardment Units, COPP's and the RM Boom Patrol Detachment (although some of these units did have personnel who came from commando units) .