Brass Para Non-voided Wings - Page 3 - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Jack8 · #31 30-07-17, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Kelley

Hello Jack,
What were these "boxes" actually like, how many of these appalling badges did each contain?
Do you know who started peddling them?
Regards Frank

Hello Frank,

This is the badge I bought. Note the lack of ridged edges to the inner wings, poor quality crown and lion (particularly the lion) and grey solder to lug base. Jack.

Frank Kelley · #32 30-07-17, 02:31 PM

Thanks Jack, that is very interesting and very telling, I have not bothered to look around at this sort of thing for a couple of decades or so, I was surprised to see this sort of blatant behaviour, notwithstanding, it is certainly nothing new, sadly the merchants of dross will do all they can to try and authenticate their wares.
The Palestine story I found very amusing, in particular, until reading this thread, I had never even heard of it.
I do hope that few people have been taken in by it, if after a number of decades have come and gone, a new and very different badge simply just appears, along with a story, alarm bells should certainly start ringing, sadly, for some, at least, they clearly do not.
Regards again, Frank

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack8

Hello Frank,

From memory they were about six inches square and made of brown cardboard. There were some inked markings on them which were supposedly MOD marks. I would gues that each box may have contained fifty or more badges.

I don't know how much each box was selling for but each badge was five or six pounds.

Unfortunately I don't know the two separate dealers who were selling them. It was not any of the well known ones such as Ron Flood, Geoff Newman, Peter Taylor, Steve Britton, Les Martin or Ginge Mather.

They were being sold at a fair about two or three years ago. I have seen individual badges for sale since then but not the full boxes.

I did buy one of the badges as an example which I will dig out and post a picture of.

Jack

fougasse1940 · #33 30-07-17, 07:12 PM

Here's an image of a box of badges I saved from a Dutch Militaria sellers site:

Rgds, Thomas.

tcrown · #34 30-07-17, 07:30 PM

This is the badge I bought. Note the lack of ridged edges to the inner wings, poor quality crown and lion (particularly the lion) and grey solder to lug base. Jack.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Jack.
Close-up views of the lugs. It is the same pattern as your badge. The color is different though.

Frank Kelley · #35 30-07-17, 07:33 PM

Hello Thomas,
Eighty Five Euro!

Seriously?
Regards Frank

tcrown · #36 30-07-17, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fougasse1940

Here's an image of a box of badges I saved from a Dutch Militaria sellers site:

Rgds, Thomas.

This is very impressive and would bring a comfortable profit to these sellers!
I still don't understand why they would use a total different pattern for mass producing these fakes. If you undertake that type reproduction business, why not choosing a classic WW2 pattern with voided crown?

Jack8 · #37 30-07-17, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fougasse1940

Here's an image of a box of badges I saved from a Dutch Militaria sellers site:

Rgds, Thomas.

Hi Thomas,

That's the same pattern badge in question, was there any explanation by the dealer as to where they originated and did he have more than one box?

Jack

Jack8 · #38 30-07-17, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcrown

This is the badge I bought. Note the lack of ridged edges to the inner wings, poor quality crown and lion (particularly the lion) and grey solder to lug base. Jack.

Thanks Jack.
Close-up views of the lugs. It is the same pattern as your badge. The color is different though.[/QUOTE]

Hi Pierre,

Apart from it's originality being questionable, I think the worst feature of this badge is the attachment of the lugs, even the 1950's metal badges were attached by a brazing process which showed the lugs to be firmly fixed with brass material.

The colour of your badge is probably due to the inconsistent ratios of the different metals used to produce white metal.

Jack

fougasse1940 · #39 30-07-17, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcrown

I still don't understand why they would use a total different pattern for mass producing these fakes. If you undertake that type reproduction business, why not choosing a classic WW2 pattern with voided crown?

There is nothing to chose, you can't just ring up Gaunt for instance and ask for their KC para dies to do a rerun, besides dies wear out, so one has to make new dies. Apparently it is difficult to replacte a die with the exact same detail and quality, so they gave it their best shot and came up with this.

Don't remember the dealer's explanation but the were peddled as originals. Several dealers had these boxes, wether this one had more than one I don't know.

Rgds, Thomas.

fougasse1940 · #40 30-07-17, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack8

The colour of your badge is probably due to the inconsistent ratios of the different metals used to produce white metal.

I don't think that's the case, it is just dirty or (artificially) aged and would look like a normal W/M badge with a clean.

Rgds, Thomas.

silverwash · #41 30-07-17, 11:32 PM

please be aware that what was made before can be made again, exact. however subtle differences are introduced for recognition purposes. when items are offered back to " dealers " they put on their second hand car salesman hats and inform the punter that they have plenty of that model in stock or there is not much call for " your " particular model. why would they desire to buy back " their " garbage ? it is easy for people to join Lord Vader.

Frank Kelley · #42 31-07-17, 07:11 AM

As Alec Guinness would have doubtless noted, a hive of scum and villainy and would, I suspect, have advised caution!

Quote:

Originally Posted by fougasse1940

Don't remember the dealer's explanation but the were peddled as originals. Several dealers had these boxes, wether this one had more than one I don't know.

Rgds, Thomas.

JerryBB · #43 31-07-17, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack8

Hello Frank,

This is the badge I bought. Note the lack of ridged edges to the inner wings, poor quality crown and lion (particularly the lion) and grey solder to lug base. Jack.

Jack,

good to see these pics of this horrible badge, thanks.

Frank Kelley · #44 31-07-17, 01:07 PM

A collector could have certainly expected to pay rather less than eighty five euro for an original badge, the words, theft and deception spring to mind.

tcrown · #45 31-07-17, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fougasse1940

I don't think that's the case, it is just dirty or (artificially) aged and would look like a normal W/M badge with a clean.

Rgds, Thomas.

No, I polished a little portion and it is the color of metal.
Anyway, it looks like these badges are all over the place: see these from another Dutch dealer (same price...)