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#16
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#17
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I rest my case !!
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#18
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Rgds, Thomas. |
#19
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In my experience somebodys sadly going to be going home with an expensive re-badged item. The caps were Herbert Johnston.
I sold a set of Blues and one of these caps in 2 separate auctions, before every man jack was buying SAS stuff. They went for a pittance. But that's the same as most of my genuine items that have gone for a fraction of the cost I see everyday online. |
#20
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Sold for AU$104.43.
The one that was sold for what it honestly is, went for AU$245.16. Some kind of Karma there, I guess. Pity the poor soul who isn't quite getting what he thought !!!!!! As was stated above; H.J made all of the hats issued to the SAS and Johan is correct re. cap badge and buttons. |
#21
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#22
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Guys I have no axe to grind in this issue, but as I said you do need to understand the British system.
Officers caps are NOT issued, they are bought by the individual concerned from the hatter of his/her choice. (This may well change but at the time we are talking about that is fact not fantasy.) The caps worn by the SAS and the RAEC are identical until such time as the hatter stitches on the buttons and puts on the badge. Thus to be absolutely sure the cap was first worn by an "ooligan from 'ereford" you would need some method of determining is the sewing is original and if there is any sign of another badge having been fitted. Eddie |
#23
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It is ultimately down to the individual officer as to where he "shops" for his kit, when I was 1st commisioned I shopped wherever the items that I needed were least expensive. No-one can say catergorically that all SAS No1 dress hats were made by Herbert Johnson's , Patey's etc..... PL |
#24
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And just to muddy the waters don't forget that even before eBay (and much more so since) there has always been a thriving trade in second hand officers' uniforms. If, heaven forbid, I'd ever needed an SAS No 1 dress cap I'd have called the RAEC depot and bought a used one, ten minutes with a needle and hey-presto a genuine SAS cap - probably at a quarter the price of a new one from Herby J.
Eddie |
#25
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Not only are officers given a choice of where to purchase their kit but senior ranks have that same choice with mess kit , although there are recommended tailors it's not compulsory and in fact lots of kit is bought overseas from camp tailors (camp as in barracks) because they tend to use better materials and are usually much cheaper and provide a better fit. I in fact bought my REME mess kit in Hong Kong , made by a local tailor for about half the cost , an din my opinion better quality , of that provided by the recommended one in the UK.
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#26
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No. 1 Dress peaked caps
Friends,
I won't argue about the British Army practice of giving an 'outfit allowance' to newly commissioned officers to buy their own uniforms, No. 2 dress, mess dress etc. That is certainly true. However, I am pretty sure not many newly commissioned officers would actually buy a No. 1 dress as there is so little opportunity to wear it and the expense is considerable. In the early days of 21 SAS (the Coronation in '53 and the TA Golden Jubiliee in '58) the supplier of No. 1 dress and peaked caps was certainly Herbert Johnson, which can be derived from information in Mars & Minerva. Also, the few early No. 1 dress peaked caps still about that I know of, were made by HJ. At the Coronation there was a big contingent of 21 SAS and 22 SAS parading, all in No. 1 dress. At the TA Golden Jubilee there was a large turn-out of 21 wearing the No. 1 dress uniform and 'bus drivers' cap. I am not sure how this situation developed later and if other tailors or hatters also supplied No. 1 peaked caps to SAS officers. That is possible. I do not believe peaked caps are still being worn with No. 1 dress today. I think berets will be worn with it or even side caps in the TA Regiments. Is anybody in a position to comment on the present day practices around No. 1 dress in the SAS Regiments? I would think there is not much opportunity to wear No. 1 dress. Please find attached some pictures of the real thing. This cap belongs to Robert Miles, who kindly gave me permission to publish the pictures on the Forum. Also, there is an excellent article Robert wrote on the subject of SAS dress uniforms for the newsletter of Chute & Dagger UK. If you become a member of C&D UK, you may even receive a copy of that article... Cheers, Johan Last edited by johanwiegman; 29-03-12 at 07:30 PM. |
#27
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Ivan |
#28
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That's the real ''genuine'' British army way of doing things - After 25 years service in that army I think that I know how material regulations (mat regs) work and how officers purchase (or scrounge) clothing. |
#29
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#30
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Without knocking anyone's service time or record;
I think we all understand and agree with the means by which officers obtain their dress clothing & equipment. It is known by several SAS insignia collectors that this particular company supplied the regiment with a certain number of dress hats and when. Yes, it is feasible that a member of the regt went elsewhere to purchase one outside of the readily obtainable supply but I doubt it. It's not a very large unit, after all. I for one would not, under the circumstances, trust this particular hat to be correct. I assume by the lack of bids that many others felt likewise ! |
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