Popski's Private Army No 1 Demolition Squadron PPA - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

seebee1 · #1 15-09-11, 11:20 AM

I would appreciate comment and opinion regarding this PPA Badge. I have a number of other variations, but this one is quite different from them and not an example I have seen elsewhere. I am unsure about the base metal and have not had it tested. The stamping on the back is curious. Regards, Clive.

seebee1 · #2 15-09-11, 11:22 AM

Images 2, 2 & 4

Unknownsoldier · #3 15-09-11, 11:30 AM

back look like cairo proof marks, tbh.....

kingsman64 · #4 15-09-11, 11:31 AM

Wow Clive you have a good un there the Hallmark is for Eygptian Silver pre 1946.

Very difficult to make the Assay mark on the left or the date on the right but the Eygptian Cat National Silver mark with the upright tail in the centre is very clear. This was replaced by a lotus flower in 1946.

So I would go for Cairo made early silver and very very nice!

jdr · #5 15-09-11, 02:10 PM

That's about the first good one I've seen on here!

Nice one Clive

Jack

seebee1 · #6 15-09-11, 05:36 PM

Many thanks for your comments, I am delighted

I had put this away some years ago and found it again last evening. I think I bought it some 20 + years ago at a small Antiques Fair in Market Harborough from an elderly lady. I could not understand the stampings, but now that the Egyptian Cat has been explained all is clear. I will definitely ensure it is kept safe and where I know it will be! Regards, Clive.

Mike B · #7 15-09-11, 10:23 PM

Not only a fantastic badge but also superb photography. Many thanks for the excellent clear images - very professional! Regards Mike

Roy · #8 16-09-11, 02:37 AM

Hi Clive,

Outstanding badge old chap. When can I come look through those old boxes of your..

All the best, Roy.

HamandJam · #9 16-09-11, 05:21 AM

Well done Clive the first real one I see, 99,99% of them being offered rubbish. Cheers JB

seebee1 · #10 16-09-11, 09:55 AM

Much appreciate the further comments. I have had a PM asking if the Badge is a Base Metal or Silver. I am sure it is not a Base Metal, it is quite light in weight, quite fine really. The only way to be certain is to have it tested at a Jewelers and I will think about having this done.

Reading last evening the section in the late Len Whittaker's book "Some Talk of Private Armies" I was amazed to see his statement on the number of those who served in the PPA.

"By the time it was disbanded 191 men (of whom ten had been killed, 17 wounded and one taken prisoner) had served in the only unit with the cheek to incorporate the derisory term "Private Army" in its title. Popski's Private Army ceased to exist on 14th September 1945".

Although I knew this had been a small-sized unit I did not know that so few had served in it. If Len's statistic is correct this certainly is a scarce badge indeed. Regards, Clive.

Mike Jackson · #11 16-09-11, 10:44 AM

For two balanced views on PPA it's worth reading the section in "War Behind Enemy Lines" by Julian Thompson. And also "British Special Forces" by William Seymour. There were probably between 80 and 100 all ranks in PPA at any one time. Thompson commanded 3 Cdo Bde and Seymour (Scots Guards) served in 52 ME Cdo - so they should know what they are talking about.

seebee1 · #12 16-09-11, 11:24 AM

That is very interesting Mike, I do not have these books to hand and wonder if you can gauge from these books approximately how many served in total in PPA? It makes perfect sense that over the time of their existence there would be varying numbers. It is possible that Len Whittaker did not allow for this. Regards, Clive.

kingsman64 · #13 16-09-11, 11:49 AM

Seebee

As I stated earlier this badge bears a Egyptian Hallmark so it is cast silver and not base metal. Some people will try and infer that Egyptian Hallmarks are in some way suspect and not to be believed as much as English marks for example. This is complete nonsense the integrity of the Egyptian Hallmark system is as secure, policed and monitored as closley as any European marks the penalties for abusing or missusing the Egyptian hallmark are however much more severe

This hallmark is pre 1946 and thanks to the quality of your photography I think we can say totally contemporary early cast silver bazzar made badge in Cairo for a very early member of the No 1 Demolition Squadron PPA.

The left hand mark would give you the assay office and the quality of the silver used but is not clear the right hand mark is the date letter which is an Arabic numeral Roman letters stopped being used in Egypt in 1940 which again validates your badge as post 1940 as the last letter is definately not a recognisable A B C etc it is Arabic.

Gold and silver of the utmost quality is embedded in Egyptian manufacturing they dont even use 9kt or 14kt all Egyptian gold is a minimum of 18kt or higher.

Regards

Paul
KINGSMAN64

HamandJam · #14 16-09-11, 12:01 PM

According to Popski himself in his own book the first badges were made by a jeweller in Cairo so an Egyptian hall mark makes sense. Cheers JB

Mike Jackson · #15 16-09-11, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seebee1

That is very interesting Mike, I do not have these books to hand and wonder if you can gauge from these books approximately how many served in total in PPA? It makes perfect sense that over the time of their existence there would be varying numbers. It is possible that Len Whittaker did not allow for this. Regards, Clive.

In my view there is no contradiction between Len Whittaker's figures and those that I quoted. Thompson quotes a PPA establishment (post expansion) of 80 (Eight officers and 72 Other Ranks). The unit comprised three fighting patrol, each 16 strong (one officer, three NCOs and 12 soldiers) mounted in six jeeps. There is no detail given about the employment of the remaining five officers and 27 Other Ranks, but the latter will have included fitters, wireless operators, armourers and mechanics.
Seymour quotes an Establishment of six officers, two warrant officers, four Sgts, five Cpls and 5 LCpls with the balance (58) being Private Soldiers.

But there will have been movement in and out of the unit - which accounts for the figure that Len Whittaker quotes. Men were KIA, WIA, RTU and, probably medically downgraded. At various times the unit will have been under its established strength and probably in excess of establishment at other times.

On balance I would consider Len Whittaker's total of men who served in PPA as being as accurate as one can get.