County of London Yeomanry

[fearnaught]

Hi, I always thought my 4th officer's collar had the 4 plated on but found an example that had been re-lugged and presumably the 4 has fallen off, so it was, on closer examination, a seperate 4. These are the small 4 type which I assume are Gaunt made. Mike

[PeterA]

Originally Posted by fearnaught

Hi, I always thought my 4th officer's collar had the 4 plated on but found an example that had been re-lugged and presumably the 4 has fallen off, so it was, on closer examination, a seperate 4. These are the small 4 type which I assume are Gaunt made. Mike

To add to the general knowledge data base, here are shots of my 'small 4' collars which appear to be pressings rather than castings and have no vestige of the '4' ever being 'silvered'. The brooch, if that is what it is, looks to be made on the same basic tooling.

PeterA

[PeterA]

Originally Posted by fearnaught

Hi, the mystery of the collar badges deepen. Was sucessful in getting some more Sharpshooters collars, more variants and questions. First are two officers' bronze collars for the XX111. One appears to be a cast of a J&Co cast collar and the other a casting of that, hence the decreasing size. The larger one is 3.12 the other 2.98 mm. Any ideas why anyone would copy a copy and does anyone have an original casting. Sometimes J&co put a faint impression inside the crown depression. Secondly my 23rd seem to have three finishes, the first is silver and gilt the second I would say is an o/r's brass and white metal, but Mollo says o/r's wore RTC collar badges? and the third appears to have a bronze finish on the back, not natural ageing. Any ideas? Thirdly I picked up a 23rd with a silver 3. Not listed in Mollo. Does anyone have an idea what,when and where? Mike.

Are you finished?

More for the data base.

PeterA

[PeterA]

...23rd LACC with CLY Collars. Two styles of manufacture.

Peter

[fearnaught]

Hi, great badges. Any chance of measuring the XX111 collars? particularly the smaller numbered one and the bronze one. Slightly off the subject Westlake lists a FIRST|SHARPSHOOTERS shoulder title being worn 1939-44. Does anyone have one and is it true? I ask, as I can't work out what the FIRST refers to. Mike

[PeterA]

Originally Posted by fearnaught

Hi, great badges. Any chance of measuring the XX111 collars? particularly the smaller numbered one and the bronze one. Slightly off the subject Westlake lists a FIRST|SHARPSHOOTERS shoulder title being worn 1939-44. Does anyone have one and is it true? I ask, as I can't work out what the FIRST refers to. Mike

Mike,

I think you need to move your decimal point or change your units.

Reading left to right in my post. 30.82mm, 31.11mm, 31.34mm & 31.18mm.

Could this be your FIRST SHARPSHOOTERS shoulder title?



PeterA

[fearnaught]

Hi, thanks for that. At least one of my XX111s is right. Westlake doesn't show the title so can only guess it's a FIRST over SHARPSHOOTERS. The one you show he says was introduced in 1952. Mike Actually looking at them yours' seem cruder. What are the lugs like? Could they be M.E made? Mine have post-war hexagonal lugs. Mike

[PeterA]

Originally Posted by fearnaught

Hi, thanks for that. At least one of my XX111s is right. Westlake doesn't show the title so can only guess it's a FIRST over SHARPSHOOTERS. The one you show he says was introduced in 1952. Mike Actually looking at them yours' seem cruder. What are the lugs like? Could they be M.E made? Mine have post-war hexagonal lugs. Mike

They look pretty crude to me. They were acquired separately and are not a matched issue pair.

PeterA

[fearnaught]

Hi, I'm always jealous of your photos. I think the titles are ME manufacture, those flat lugs are the same as the ME made collars. Next question is why and who wore them.I've included pics of my straight title and the earlier titles. The tatty cloth slide is a war-time example. It has a thicker weave than the usual ones. The Y|RTC may be made up, the cloth is certainly the same as the post war slide. Does anyone have a pre-war example of the slip-on/slide? Mike

Originally Posted by Keith Blakeman

I was pleased to get hold of this badge today after a long period of waiting for a good one. This is the pattern worn for a single year (1938-39) yet appears more frequently thanit's predecessor (worn 1920-38). These are usually copies and good ones at that, strong with lugs but slightly smaller in height and the CLY attached with solder not braze. The earlier badge which I don't have has the roman numerals XXIII in the centre rather than CLY and a word of warning about copies of this one is that the wording around the circle should have no mention of 23rd, this is unique to the badge posted here. The fakers have used the same basic badge with different w/m centres.

Out of interest, and in support of Keith's assertion regarding the absence of '23rd' in the wording within the circlet, National Archives file WO 32/11274, contains the following documents relating to the design of the XXIII pattern cap badge:

2nd Aug 1922.jpgXXIII Approved Design.jpg23rd Oct 1922.jpg

No '23rd' within the circlet.

In addition, and with all due respect, I wonder if the dates quoted in Keith's thread (which I humbly assume came from Gaylor) may be slightly askew. The missive to the Secretary of the T.A.A. shown below, from the Director of Equipment and Ordnance Stores, seems to reveal that this badge was available for issue no earlier than late-1922:

21st December 1922.jpg

Possibly splitting hairs with this, but I thought it might be of interest and worth a mention.

Regards to all,

Peter.

[PeterA]

Fascinating. Thanks for posting.

PeterA