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#16
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The previous post about brasing holes being a sign of a gneuine badge is generally true for Vci and Edwardian badges but in WW1 many makers did not use them and by WW2 it was common not to have brsaing holes. I have lots of examples from my grandfather's WW2 badges. Alan |
#17
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I’d suspect as well some of the badges you are referring to are not ‘restrikes’ i.e. the original dies being used to make badges at a later date but rather fake dies newly produced en mass in the 1970s and beyond. The number of cap badges that have been restruck from original dies is comparatively small v’s new fake dies cut. Conversely numerous restrikes and fakes do have braze holes such as Loyal Suffolk Hussars and Essex & Suffolk Cyclists respectively. Whilst fakes more often than not do indeed lack braze holes as mentioned above they were not always ever-presents on genuine badges even in the relatively early decades of the 20th century and as time and manufacturing techniques progressed so did the numbers of badges manufactured without them. That said it would appear that a couple of the main badge manufacturers i.e. Gaunt and Firmin were still using braze holes into the late 1940s / early 1950s. Additionally in the case of the badges in the opening post I would always expect to see braze holes on QVC/Edwardian era badges. |
#18
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Cheshire Braze Holes
A lugged Cheshire Regiment I have. Looks like someone has made 4 failed attempts to drill a hole in the back then crudely cut or punched out out a slit. Guessing, like you do, I'd always assumed an unholed badge, which had come apart, and the repairer had identified the problem and set about rectifying it by creating a hole. If it's a fake, it's an incredible job (apart from the botched braze hole).
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#19
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It’s a rectangular braze hole, as is often seen on these and many other badges.
The badge was manufactured that way it has not been repaired. It’s genuine and dates from the late c.1890s-1903. |
#20
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Excellent Luke! Thanks for that. Somehow always expect braze holes to be rather better done than that. Mike
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#21
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The NAM offloaded a huge amount of badges a few years ago, some went through DNW who auctioned large lots of Gaunt stock including multiple examples of the same badge. I bought what I believe is a salesman’s Cheshire’s from one of the successful bidders, while it is not a looped version, there may have been a number of them in the auction, I’m sure their online archive is still available.
The point I’m making is that from time to time a glut of things do appear. |
#22
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#23
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Have had this badge lying about for quite awhile now. Had to clean it up as it was rather nasty, hence the lugs not the dark cherry they were. Not the quality I would expect but?
CB
__________________
"We seldom learn the true want of what we have till it is discovered that we can have no more." Sam. Johnson |
#24
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Could you clarify that, I would have said there are few badges that have been remade using original dies these days and the vast majority are actually completely spurious fakes.
Last edited by Frank Kelley; 10-08-20 at 08:33 AM. |
#25
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Yes, I would tend to agree with that. The "hair splitting" I mentioned over whether the original die was used or not is mostly irrelevant because, the restrikers either could not obtain or failed to get the exact, MOD designated alloy right, (which greatly affects the colour of a badge) and because of the difficulty inherent in its use, high-temperature solder used to affix lugs and sliders isnt correct either, which was also a tried and tested industry standard, not used for many years before restrikes became the problem outlined by Frederick Wilkinsons additional notes in his 1970's publications, which these people could just not reproduce well enough.
Most badges I examined, where compostite alloys were used, employed these gas-escape vents, and the badges that diddnt need them like the bi-metal Notts & Derby, West Yorks and Lincolnshire Regiments to name but a few, always had the same manufacturing characteristics. There are a few notable exceptions however such as The Royal Artillery badges of c. WW1 which have a pair of half-loops either side of a slider, (behind the ubique scroll) which is also folded over at the top, for added strength at what was clearly a weak point. Some of the cavalry regiments with fine detail (which often broke off) also had strengthening strips added, especially in the lances and I had 9th and 5th Lancers badges in my collection that had these. I also cannot speak for "Tiptaft" marks on sliders as I never saw or tested any. I thought Tiptaft mainly made C.E.F. badges, which at the time of my study had not suffered from the re-strike problem, so I left those well alone. I hear that has changed now? Officers bronzes were also not copied at that time. I have seen some of the ones mentioned like the Loyal Suffolk Hussars, but again, the devil is in the detail and they just dont get the solder right. As for all these badges turning up now with named sliders, I never saw any Lambourne marked sliders either, even in the mid 60's when I started collecting British military badges, and having had many hundreds of badges through my hands over the years, the only makers mark I noted was on the C.E.F's as reported in the Charlton catalogues and those tiny Gaunt tabs, so I cannot speak for the ones with incised names on sliders, but for the ones I have seen I tended to leave well alone, which was just my own predilection. Last edited by R.J. Bradshaw; 12-08-20 at 11:25 PM. Reason: addendum |
#26
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Well, quite frankly, when I look at badges, I always take into account the materials and method of manufacture used before looking at details, which for me at least is usually enough.
Tiptaft did make CEF badges, but, they also made very many others including, interestingly, the Cheshire Regiment. I am rather surprised that you never encountered a Lambourne badge, given the sheer volume they produced, they always turned up in mature collections. Quote:
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#27
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I don't think that I've ever seen a Tiptaft made Cheshire Regiment without a hole.
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