Cloth titles on ebay- arctic division?

[capbadge]

Hey all,

I found these cloth titles on ebay and was wondering if they are the late CEF artic/northermen division patches, or if they are possibly from the Siberian expedition force- Thanks for the heads up!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

If anyone could suggest a good book on CEF or WW2 cloth Canadian patches I would be grateful- thanks again!

[regimentalrogue]

I can't help with the polar bear patch other than to say they're not for the CSEF, but the book you're looking for is this one:

"Distinguishing Patches" 2nd Edition, Clive M. Law

[Bill A]

Hi, 49th Div second pattern, Second World War. Not worn by Canadians, who only wore the first pattern. The Canadians who wore the first pattern patch were part of Z Force, sent to defend Iceland.
The brigade bars (the red ones below the 49th patch) denote the battalion (?) in the brigade. Some of our British friends will be able to tell you a bit more.

[Voltigeur]

About the 49th Br. Infantry Division,there was two junior brigades that wore the three bars, during the war.

70th Infantry Brigade
(May 1942-Aug 1944)
10th Bn. Durham Light Infantry
11th Bn. Durham Light Infantry
1st Bn. The Tyneside Scottish

56th Infantry Brigade
(Aug 1944-1945)
2nd Battalion, The Essex Regiment
2nd Battalion, The Gloucestershire Regiment
2nd Battalion, The South Wales Borderers

Jo

[Recce]

The Second World War:

During the Second World war, the division first saw action beginning on 15-17 April 1940 when two of its brigades took part in
the short and ill-fated landings in Norway that were intended to retake the ports of Trondheim and Narvik from the Germans.
The division withdrew from Norway in May 1940.

The division's 146th Infantry Brigade and 147th Infantry Brigade were thereafter stationed in Iceland. As a result, a new
divisional insignia, featurin a Polar Bear standing on an ice floe, was adopted. In 1942, the division was transferred back to the
United Kingdom.

Just after D-Day, in June 1944, it moved to Normandy as part of XXX Corps. During the fierce fighting in Normandy, the Nazi propaganda
broadcaster Lord Haw-Haw referred to the division as "the Polar Bear Butchers". During the rest of the war, the division was variously
under the command of the I Corps, the II Canadian Corps, and the I Canadian Corps. Its last major contribution to the war was the
Liberation of Arnhem and the fierce battles that led to it.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/49th_(W...antry_Division


Iceland in the Second World War

http://stonebooks.com/history/iceland.shtml

[Bill A]

Hi Recce, There were two versions of the 49th Div patch. The first one had the bear looking down at the water, while the second one had the bear looking up. The Canadians never wore the second pattern.
For more on the Z Force patches, see this linkhttp://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...hlight=z+force

[Recce]

Originally Posted by Bill A

Hi Recce, There were two versions of the 49th Div patch. The first one had the bear looking down at the water, while the second one had the bear looking up. The Canadians never wore the second patter.
For more on the Z Force patches, see this linkhttp://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...hlight=z+force

Never knew, always seen the one version. The one never worne, that's the one with the bear's looking up? Whoever It's also noticeable the one worn by Z Force the Bear is not howling with and opened mouth. Yours are the ones they wore?

As Yours his mouth is closed looking down.

[Bill A]

Yep. Well, at least that is the belief. There are some suggestions that Canadians didn't get the patch until they were leaving Iceland. There are some images of the patch being worn, but they may have been in the UK.

[NorthStafford]

As a amtter of interest , there is a museum dedicated to the 49th Division in Arnhem.

[NEMO]

HI good morning , just as a follow on ,
the first pattern showing the polar bear looking down was declared too ` timid` a design by a visiting V.I.P and amore agressive design was suggested.

It has been written in to the history books that the V.I.P was infact Winston Churchill possibly when he visited the unit in 1941 on his way back to the UK but Im temped to believe it was later on in the war when a senior general inspected the troops .

Another myth that has grown up about the badge is the polar bear design was selected whilst the unit ws in Iceland " coz it was snowy and cold " = POLAR BEARS
and some collectors consider the origins of the badge is even earlier from when this unit saw action in Norway in 1940.

My own personal believe ( backed up by no facts what so ever )
Is that the badge was a direct copy of the Fox`s glasier mint sweet using the logo from the paper wrapper manufactured at FOX`S factory in Batley West Yorkshire UK , Batley was a main recruiting area for the 49th div.

Please feel free to shoot me down , regards ,Michael.

[Peter Brydon]

I have read something about the connection with Fox`s Glacier mints but I cannot remember where. I will post details if I can find the reference.

There is a note in The Formation Sign No 238 refering to an article by Brian Davis on the 49th Divs sign in FS 213 Jan/Mar 2004 but I dont have a copy of that edition.

P.B.

[Peter Brydon]

Micheal,

This may be what was at the back of my mind. In "British Battle Insignia (2 ) 1939-45" Mike Chapple says ( page 33 )

49th ( West Riding ) Infantry Division

"...................... Untill 1942 personel of the 49th Div. continued to wear the pre war divisional sign of a white rose on uniform, this was worn with the Fox`s Glacier mint polar bear sign which became the sole divisional sign after the division`s return from Iceland......."

P.B.

[Bill A]

Thanks Peter, Michael for the additional information. Hopefully Hinrik will add his thoughts on the history of this patch.

[oc14]

Originally Posted by NEMO

My own personal believe ( backed up by no facts what so ever )
Is that the badge was a direct copy of the Fox`s glasier mint sweet using the logo from the paper wrapper manufactured at FOX`S factory in Batley West Yorkshire UK , Batley was a main recruiting area for the 49th div.

Please feel free to shoot me down , regards ,Michael.

Just revisiting an old thread and found this.....the only Fox's factory in Batley is that of Fox's Biscuits, Fox's Glacier Mints were made in Leicester.


Paul

[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by oc14

Just revisiting an old thread and found this.....the only Fox's factory in Batley is that of Fox's Biscuits, Fox's Glacier Mints were made in Leicester.


Paul

The Facebook page of the 49th Infantry Division Polar Bears has a Fox's Glacier Mint logo/advert as it cover photo.

.