British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > British Military Insignia > Formation Signs and Patches

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 22-07-18, 08:48 PM
Drew's Avatar
Drew Drew is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Kyoto
Posts: 224
Default White on red ‘WW1’ cloth shoulder titles- London Regiment

In the Jan to March issue of The Formation Sign, there was a very interesting excerpt about a “22nd Queen’s” embroidered shoulder title with white writing on a red background. I was quite surprised by this as I had always presumed such white on red titles (for the London Regiment), were all WWII. There is a picture of the title and also a photograph of an officer in WWI uniform. I just wondered how many other London battalions may have used such colours. For example, there is the following ‘23rd London Regt.’ one on an auction site (which is also described as WWI).

How do we know for certain that they are of this point in time and not of the immediate inter-war period? I don’t mean to sound doubtful of the ascription, I am just very curious about this subject.
I am aware that many units had this colour scheme for cloth titles pre-1908, but I had just not seen it before with the London Regiment until after the Great War.

Best regards,

Chris
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 22-07-18, 08:57 PM
matti467's Avatar
matti467 matti467 is offline
Mr. Jackanory
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Leicestershire
Posts: 1,857
Default

The 22nd Queens white on red does sound familiar to me. I would also expect the font to be very unlike any WW2 and later shoulder titles.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 23-07-18, 02:49 AM
Jelly Terror's Avatar
Jelly Terror Jelly Terror is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,189
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew View Post
In the Jan to March issue of The Formation Sign, there was a very interesting excerpt about a “22nd Queen’s” embroidered shoulder title with white writing on a red background. I was quite surprised by this as I had always presumed such white on red titles (for the London Regiment), were all WWII. There is a picture of the title and also a photograph of an officer in WWI uniform. I just wondered how many other London battalions may have used such colours. For example, there is the following ‘23rd London Regt.’ one on an auction site (which is also described as WWI).

How do we know for certain that they are of this point in time and not of the immediate inter-war period? I don’t mean to sound doubtful of the ascription, I am just very curious about this subject.
I am aware that many units had this colour scheme for cloth titles pre-1908, but I had just not seen it before with the London Regiment until after the Great War.

Best regards,

Chris
Chris,

After a little rummaging through my notes I can now offer the following for consideration in respect of the '23rd LONDON REGT.' shoulder title:

23 ST Jul 1956 a.jpg23 ST Aug 1956 a.jpg23 ST May 1957 a.jpg

Regards,

JT
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 23-07-18, 04:33 AM
Drew's Avatar
Drew Drew is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Kyoto
Posts: 224
Default

Matti,
Thanks very much for that. You make a very good point about the font. I will have to have a closer look at that.

JT,
That’s great, thank you so much. WW1 and 1956 are obviously very different dates. It seems the auction house has got that one wrong. I also wondered about the red on Rifle green QVR one pictured. I dont believe I have ever seen that one in photographs of the great war period.

Many thanks,

Chris

Last edited by Drew; 23-07-18 at 07:31 AM. Reason: Clarity
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 25-07-18, 05:51 PM
Postwarden's Avatar
Postwarden Postwarden is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Garden of England
Posts: 3,299
Default

Difficult to be certain but the attached would appear to show the WWI red on green QVR title.

Jon
Attached Images
File Type: jpg QVR details JM.jpg (33.9 KB, 72 views)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 25-07-18, 10:53 PM
Drew's Avatar
Drew Drew is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Kyoto
Posts: 224
Default

Hello Jon,

Thank you so much for that. I think I saw this photo, or one like it, for sale recently. I wish now, that I had tried to purchase it.

Forgive me, but it is hard for me to distinguish it from the more familiar black on khaki one. Was the red on green one was an officers pattern?

Thank you very much for your post.

Regards,

Chris
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 26-07-18, 09:13 AM
54Bty's Avatar
54Bty 54Bty is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: London, England
Posts: 6,366
Default

The 23rd London Regt.
Catalogue number CB 7691, pattern number 17237, sealed 10th October 1956, introduced 11th January 1957, List of Change number 8042 April 1957.

Marc
__________________
I am still looking for British Army cloth Formation, Regimental, Battalion, Company and other Unit sleeve badges, from 1980 onwards.

Last edited by 54Bty; 09-02-22 at 05:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 26-07-18, 01:46 PM
Drew's Avatar
Drew Drew is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Kyoto
Posts: 224
Default

Fantastic! Thank you very much indeed, Marc.

Taking off from what Matti was saying, the font does look different to the 22nd London Rgt one that was in ‘The Formation Sign’.

Many thanks,

Chris
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 26-07-18, 01:58 PM
Postwarden's Avatar
Postwarden Postwarden is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Garden of England
Posts: 3,299
Default

The 22nd London title as it appeared in The Formation Sign.

If you'd been a member you'd have seen it.

Email militaryheraldrysociety@gmail.com to find out how to join. UK sub is £17 and can be paid by Paypal.

Jon
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 22nd Queens Andy T Jan 2018.jpg (25.2 KB, 49 views)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 26-07-18, 03:51 PM
Drew's Avatar
Drew Drew is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Kyoto
Posts: 224
Default

Hello Jon,

I think there might be some misunderstanding. I am a member and I have seen the Jan-March issue with the 22nd London title in it. I thought I had mentioned this last point in the OP. I thought it was quite a rare example of such a colour combination for that period, and this thread was really just to wonder about if other London battalions may have used such colours and when.
My last post was just to muse about the differences between the 23rd London’s one from the 50s and the example in your excellent publication. I did not use any representations of what I had seen, artistic or otherwise, out of respect. Perhaps that is why you thought I had not seen it?

Regards,

Chris


QUOTE=Postwarden;449517]The 22nd London title as it appeared in The Formation Sign.

If you'd been a member you'd have seen it.

Email militaryheraldrysociety@gmail.com to find out how to join. UK sub is £17 and can be paid by Paypal.

Jon[/QUOTE]
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 26-07-18, 07:23 PM
Drew's Avatar
Drew Drew is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Kyoto
Posts: 224
Default

Apologies, I am at the coast and reception is very patchy. I could not see the 22nd battalion cloth title you posted at first. Thank you very much for your generosity in adding that.

Regards,
Chris
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 16-11-22, 12:10 PM
poona guard poona guard is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 6
Default

Hi Jon,
Can I use the thumbnail in my Terriers book please. I tried to copy it already as a record but it isn't a Jpeg.
Best,
Dave
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 20-11-22, 03:03 PM
MH331 MH331 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 2,252
Default

I would say Black on khaki for WW1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Postwarden View Post
Difficult to be certain but the attached would appear to show the WWI red on green QVR title.

Jon
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cloth shoulder titles, london regiment, ww1

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:19 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.