Lond. Rgt. Bn. patches in 1917 and 1918

[Drew]

Hello,

Would anyone be kind enough to tell me what happened to London Regiment battalion patches after Jan/Feb 1918, when the Territorial Force was reorganised? I have read a number of descriptions of battalion patches in 1917, but I wonder what happened when the brigades were reduced from 4 to 3 battalions.

It seems to me that since seniority had changed, many battalions would have had to changed their patch. The following excellent thread here leads me to believe that the 47th Division changed as shown in my diagram attached. Is my presumption correct and was the situation the same for the 56th and 58th Divisions?

Many thanks in advance for any help you may be able to provide.

Chris

PICTURE ATTACHED NOW THOUGHT TO BE WRONG

[badjez]

I'm unsure what you refer to by the reorganisation of the TF. The TF as a separate entity had really ceased to exist post-1916 when Ordnance took over supplying insignia, and only those units of 2nd and 3rd Line were administered by TFA. Allocation of coloured flashes was overseen by Brigade or Divisional Staff.

When the TA was reformed in 1920/21 coloured patches were not worn, although some units did reintroduce them as regimental flashes prior to 1939.

The IWM hold a substantial collection of flashes, and associated paperwork, perhaps if you wrote to them they might assist you.

Stephen.

[Drew]

Hello Stephen,

Thanks very much for your reply. I am sorry, on reflection I see that I was inaccurate in what I wrote. I don't know what I was talking about! I meant when the British brigades were reduced from 4 battalions to 3. A change not restricted to the TF. Apologies.

Hadn't thought of writing to the IWM so thanks very much for the suggestion.

Cheers,

Chris

[badjez]

Chris,

The IWM has the best collection of these patches. Firstly they contacted every unit to obtain copies of what were being worn, then the wrote to all surviving Bn commanders seeking their recollections. The collection is the jewel of badges they hold, although apparently their German Imperial Army collection is also world class. The curator's there are very friendly, and helpful, once you get past the frosty point of first contact.

Stephen.

[Drew]

Stephen,

Thanks again for the advice. I will write to them directly. It is interesting as some more evidence from JT's excellent collection points towards such a change. This picture shows 2 Lt. Cyril Thomas Underhay As an 11th Bn. Officer (according to his collar badge). However, his MiC also states 21st London, which would mean he seems to be wearing a yellow club patch for that battallion for 1918.
It would be nice to get the definitive answer for my query, so I will take your advice and drop them a line.

Cheers,

Chris

[Voltigeur]

Can't see the photo Drew..
Jo

[Drew]

Thanks, Jo. Hopefully it should be OK now. Think it was something to do with trying to use an iphone instead of my computer.
Cheers,

Chris

[Drew]

Hello,

Heard back from the IWM, and no luck there I am afraid. They say that they are unable to help beyond the description given on the item's page, due to the thousands of emails they get. I think perhaps if I went in to see them in person, things might be different, but via email this is all they would say. All being well, I should be moving back to the UK next year, and can wander up there then. They did direct me to try the National Archives, so I will have a look into that.

Cheers,

Chris

[Drew]

I found the following records as a 'subseries within WO 32', at the National Archives (WO 32- War Office and successors: Registered Files (General Series)):
-Formation Signs
-Dress and embellishments: Territorial Army County Associations
That will be another avenue to look into.

[Drew]

Originally Posted by Drew

I found the following records as a 'subseries within WO 32', at the National Archives (WO 32- War Office and successors: Registered Files (General Series)):
-Formation Signs
-Dress and embellishments: Territorial Army County Associations
That will be another avenue to look into.

The above files have turned out to be from the 1950s. Would anyone know if there are any files like these for the Great War period? I cannot find similar anywhere on the NA search engine. I have a few days spare and would like to go and look them up.

Many thanks,

Chris