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  #1  
Old 25-07-22, 03:44 PM
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Default Ayrshire Yeomanry, the running order for the Other Ranks cap badges

Hello good people of the Forum.
I was encouraged by a fellow forum member, and wanted to start the above subject a long, long while ago, but unfortunately life has a habit of getting in the way!
But done now, so here it is.
I've always loved the badges of the Ayrshire Yeomanry, and it was an AY collar badge stuck to a tankard, that was presented to my dad when he was a PSI with them in the late 70's, that inspired me to collect badges in the first place, so I got myself a pair of aa AY collars and a QOY fox cap badge.
It's only recently, well two years ago,that I decided to do a full study into the subject of the running order (for want of a better expression), of the Other ranks AY cap badges, after reading the 'Proud Trooper' book by Major W Steel Brownlie.
In the book various badges are described, and it's from this source that my main study has come from.
Using the usual books, KK, Wilkinson, Gaylor etc, internet pictures, forum members knowledge, forum members AY badges in their collections, museums archives, and the Ayrshire Yeomanry Old Comrades Association, is how I've come to my conclusions, whether they're right or wrong or agreed with, we'll soon see as the posts are added to the thread, which I look forward to greatly.
I'm going to do a separate post per badge, so if members could kindly wait before posting on the thread, until I've put up the last badge, I'll clearly mark on this post 'LAST BADGE', and then any questions, comments, constructive criticism, additions etc will be most welcome.
I've also given each badge a name, like the 'large of' for example, some have come from expressions already used by members of the forum, some I've made up myself, which may catch on, who knows!
I hope people enjoy the thread.
Cheers all
Chris
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  #2  
Old 25-07-22, 03:48 PM
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Default Imperial Yeomanry badge

Badge one, is the first cap badge worn by the Ayrshire Yeomanry, it's common name is the 'Imperial Yeomanry' badge, as it came about in and around 1902, when the Yeomanry Regiments were still known as Imperial Yeomanry.
The badge is gilding metal, and is based on the arms of the Earl of Carrick, a lion's head, with eagles wings, known within the Regiment as the Griffin. This badge was worn up to 1916.
This badge can be found on loops, I believe these are the earlier ones, different types of loops also.
And the later one, on a vertical shank.
I believe there are three dies of this badge?
Attached are a couple of photos from Google of soldiers wearing the badge, and a looped version and slidered version from my own collection.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20220725_103624476.jpg (120.2 KB, 50 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20220725_103632888.jpg (117.4 KB, 35 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20220725_103646140.jpg (119.6 KB, 41 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20220725_103653354_HDR.jpg (119.9 KB, 36 views)
File Type: jpg gallipoliblog5.jpg (60.4 KB, 32 views)
File Type: jpg Ayrshire-Yeomanry.jpg (58.3 KB, 28 views)
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  #3  
Old 25-07-22, 03:55 PM
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Badge two, the Bazaar made badge.
In around May 1916, the AY were concentrated at Kentara, Egypt. The Proud Trooper book says the following, 'It was about this time that consideration was given to a change in the design of the Regimental badge. Two Yeomen put forward sketches with a design.
They were made by native brass workers, who were in the habit of producing all types of badges and numerals
Unpolished brass Badges with scroll were issued soon afterwards.
About August, September 1916 polished brass badges were received from UK, sample having been sent home to a maker'.(See badge three for this badge).
So from this narrative, we can see there was a sand cast Bazaar made badge, the badges attached are believed to be those badges.
The first is mine, a trade with a fellow forum member, the second and third is from a member of the Ayrshire Yeomanry Old Comrades Association, and I've seen another in a forum members collection.
I believe these to be genuine, they look so different to the Imperial Yeomanry pattern, and the later 1916 patterns,but look as if they have been taken from a sketch,and all look from the same cast but with slightly different notches, bumps etc.
Sadly, no photos of them in use, but I think the evidence alone would say these are ok.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20220725_103707330.jpg (119.1 KB, 88 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20220725_103713047.jpg (118.6 KB, 69 views)
File Type: jpg image.jpg (40.0 KB, 61 views)
File Type: jpg image.jpg (52.8 KB, 61 views)

Last edited by 3dg; 25-07-22 at 07:05 PM.
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  #4  
Old 25-07-22, 04:04 PM
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Badge three.
As mentioned in the Proud Trooper book on the badge two section, a sample of the Bazaar made badge was sent home to a maker, the badges attached definitely fit the brief, they are called 'cut and shut' as the die stamped Griffin is attached to a solid made scroll, a term used by forum member Alan O, who discovered one of these Badges and put it up for discussion on the forum, the name stuck.
These badges are really well made, and the Griffin is a completely different die to the Imperial Yeomanry ones, so it wasn't a case of soldering that pattern badge to a new scroll. And all these cut and shut Badges are from the same die, as mentioned above there are three dies for the Imperial Yeomanry pattern. The colours of the metals are also both the same.
I've seen seven of these pattern badges now, in various collections, I'm lucky enough to now own one.
So in conclusion, the badges attached I would definitely say these were the first UK made AY cap badges, with the scroll, as later a more cost effective badge, (badge four) came along as a single whole die cast.

Attachment 1 is Alan O's cut and
shut.

Attachment 2 is my own

Attachment 3 is from a member of the Old Comrades Association, this belonging to his Father who served in WW2, the member proudly wore it while serving in the 60's. This was his father's issued badge when he joined in 1939, served during the War, then demobed in 1945, the issue of this 1916 badge will make more sense on the subject of badge number seven

Attachment 4 is the OCA members Dad wearing the badge in WW2.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_1642.jpg (75.5 KB, 75 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1645.jpg (61.4 KB, 48 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20220725_103725644.jpg (119.7 KB, 47 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20220725_103734533.jpg (118.7 KB, 38 views)
File Type: jpg image.jpg (117.5 KB, 35 views)
File Type: jpg image.jpg (117.5 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg image~2.jpg (30.2 KB, 43 views)

Last edited by Alan O; 26-07-22 at 10:44 AM.
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  #5  
Old 25-07-22, 04:08 PM
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Default 1916 badge

Badge four
This is the 1916 badge, where the whole badge is one die cast, more cost effective than the two piece cut and shut.
I've seen a fair few of these in various collections, but seem to be fairly hard to get hold of, I've not got one yet.

Attachment 1
Is from Alan O's collection
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_1643.jpg (69.5 KB, 68 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1646.jpg (63.0 KB, 52 views)
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  #6  
Old 25-07-22, 04:32 PM
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Default Solid chin large of badge

Badge five
This badge I would say is a fairly newly discovered badge in terms of its of its dating and wear.
The Proud Trooper book says that after WW1, (Gaylor states 1923 in his book), the title scrolls were changed around to read, top left 'AYRSHIRE' top right 'YEOMANRY' bottom scroll 'EARL OF CARRICK'S OWN' as opposed to the 1916 badge scroll top left 'EARL OF' top right 'CARRICK'S' bottom scroll 'AYRSHIRE YEOMANRY'.
This badge is commonly known as the 'Large of' badge, and was always proclaimed as being the one as in Badge number seven.
Looking at Badge seven, all the examples I've come across have never seemed to be from the 20's period, the way they are made, the sliders etc, always seem to point to WW2 era and some possibly post WW2.
A badge found by forum member Luke H fits the 20's era nicely. After some discussion about this badge, I believe this is the one for the 20's Badge. If you look at the lions head, it's in keeping with the 1916 badges, the shorter sloped forehead. The quality of the badge itself is certainly better than badge seven, it's more solid, and has that feel and look of an older badge. The characteristics are a solid chin, hence the name, scroll attached closer to the Griffin, wing tips more voided, period loops.
When you come to read the text about badge seven, you'll see more reasoning to why this badge I'd say is definitely the 20"s era badge.
I've seen four examples of this badge, and are attached below.

Attachment 1
From Luke H's collection

Attachment 2
Kipling King Vol 2 number 2297

Attachment 3
Is from the Olympia auction site, a huge collection that was sold off some years ago, can't remember who's though.

Attachment 4
Is from my own collection
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image.jpg (91.3 KB, 64 views)
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  #7  
Old 25-07-22, 04:33 PM
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Badge five continued
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image.jpg (83.2 KB, 52 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20220725_172555605.jpg (44.4 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg 68~2.jpg (8.5 KB, 31 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20220725_103749009.jpg (119.9 KB, 48 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20220725_103756856.jpg (118.1 KB, 22 views)

Last edited by Alan O; 25-07-22 at 06:37 PM.
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  #8  
Old 25-07-22, 05:52 PM
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Default 1927 small of badge

Badge six
The Proud Trooper book says that 'In 1927 a further design appeared, this time with the lion's head much slimmer than previously.
After discussion with a couple of forum members, plus members of the AY OCA, and evidence, the badge described above is the what is commonly called the 'small of' badge.
Looking through most badge books, this badge is described as being sealed on the 5th December 1951.
The small of I have in my collection, and many others I've seen, all look to be of an earlier manufacture, and there are some that look to fit the bill for a 50's badge.
So on further investigation, I had two photos sent to me from an AY OCA member, both show this badge in use in WW2, the photos are dated 1944 and 1945 respectively.
If you look at the badge, there is a clear void from the beard between the wing and the body of the lion, this makes a distinct 'V' shape, also the very distinct curve of the neck, I've zoomed in on both Badges, I've also put different filters on them, and they're definitely this badge.
Also, the Lions mane is flared out, unlike all the above badges, this can also be seen.
In the Proud Trooper book, there is a photo of the S/NCO's in 1935, again, I've studied this photo closely, there are a mix of 1916 badges etc, but there are also a number of the 1927 Small of badge, you can make out the curved neck.
This is the badge they stuck with, and obviously a sealed version of it was made in 1951, this I believe is badge eight.
There was obviously a shortage of this badge at the outbreak of WW2, which will be described in the badge seven section below.
There is a dreaded Martin Marsh of this badge, which can easily fool.

Attachment 1
Is from my collection

Attachment 2 & 3
Are the zoomed in photos of the above badge being worn in WW2.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20220725_103808757.jpg (119.8 KB, 54 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20220725_103817032.jpg (119.7 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg image~6.jpg (17.1 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg image~5.jpg (17.6 KB, 19 views)
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  #9  
Old 25-07-22, 05:56 PM
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Default WW2 large of badge

Badge seven
As I've mentioned in the 1927 small of badge section (badge six), there was a shortage of these badges at the outbreak of WW2, the Proud Trooper says the following, 'in 1939, when the Regiment mobilised in Dam Park, some men were issued with pre 1916 badges without the scroll-no doubt old stock issued because of a shortage of newer patterns'.
Also evidence of this is mentioned in the 'Cut and shut' badge section, where the member of the AY OCA's dad was issued a 1916 cut and shut, obviously it's whatever was in the stores.
I believe to make up for the short fall of badges, another manufacturer copied the die for the 'Solid chin' badge, and made a similar badge to that one.
These are of the quality of a WW2 badge, and the sliders look to be of that period.
Evidence that they were worn is a dug up one,posted by forum member rubicon, found in a Normandy field near Caen, that was occupied in July 1944 by 151st AY Field Regiment RA, can't get any more proof than that.

Attachment 1
From Wilkinson book

Attachment 2
From my collection

Attachment 3
From the forum, dug up badge
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20220725_172651764.jpg (116.8 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20220725_103834703.jpg (119.5 KB, 40 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20220725_103841220.jpg (118.9 KB, 20 views)
File Type: jpg Ayrshire Yeomanry.jpg (65.6 KB, 26 views)
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  #10  
Old 25-07-22, 06:03 PM
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Default Sealed small of badge

Badge eight
This I believe is the sealed pattern of the 1927 small of badge (badge six).
It was sealed on the 5th of December 1951.
If you compare this to badge six, the die is a lot more crisp, slight differences, especially the back, and a slider that fits the period, I've compared with other badges for that time. Also the gilding metal is of that period of badge, again comparing it to other Badges of the period.
These would have been issued upto 1965 when the anodised aluminium came in to use.

Attachment 1
From a dealers list

Attachment 2
Photo from a member of the AY OCA, shows the badge in use, photo annotated Castlemartin 1960.
I can only assume this is the sealed small of badge, it could also be the 1927 badge passed down from the family, who knows
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 3357f.jpg (46.2 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg 3357R.jpg (48.7 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg image~3.jpg (26.6 KB, 17 views)
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  #11  
Old 25-07-22, 06:09 PM
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Badge(s) nine
The anodised aluminium badge, one of these was sealed on the 30th of April 1965, I believe it's badge A, the J R Gaunt example, as it's similar to the sealed small of badge.
Interesting the Firmin badge has copied the WW2 large of badge, perhaps it was them who made the that original badge to make up for the short fall in 1939? My example has certainly spent a while in the gold anodised!
S&W and the Dowler does look like the lion has sat on a thorn, or had a scare.
Also another Gaunt, different die.

Attached
Nine A, Gaunt, believed to be the original sealed pattern
B, S&W
C,Dowler
D, Firmin
E, Gaunt different die

Anodised continued
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20220725_104048875_HDR.jpg (119.5 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20220725_104056361_HDR.jpg (118.7 KB, 13 views)
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File Type: jpg IMG_20220725_104033035_HDR.jpg (118.8 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg 3383f.jpg (46.5 KB, 20 views)
File Type: jpg 3383R.jpg (28.7 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20220725_104123774_HDR.jpg (120.5 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20220725_104141272.jpg (119.8 KB, 11 views)

Last edited by Alan O; 25-07-22 at 06:38 PM.
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  #12  
Old 25-07-22, 06:25 PM
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Default PRI badge. *LAST BADGE*

Badge ten *LAST BADGE*
I've included this badge as it's the last one to have been used by the Ayrshire Yeomanry, although not an issued badge, it was worn on many occasions by the Ayrshire Yeomanry Squadron upon becoming part of the Queen's Own Yeomanry.
It's a copy from the Gaunt die.
In conversation with one of the AY OCA members, he served late 60's to mid 70's, he said you were issued with a staybright, most went straight to the PRI and bought the metal one, it was similar to my one attached.
Many other OCA members have the same badge, bought from the PRI.
Many wore it on courses in Bovington or Catterick etc in the 80's, instead of the running fox badge of the QOY, also when the Sqn were just together, especially during the 70's early 80's, the badge was worn, when the whole QOY Regiment was together, the fox Badge had to be worn.
In 1992 the AY Squadron became part of the Scottish Yeomanry, so while on the Annual Sunday Yeomanry parade in Ayr, they were no longer part of the QOY, and had no badge for the new Scottish Yeomanry, so the PRI Ayrshire Yeomanry cap badge was worn for the last time, as it's predecessor, the Bazaar made badge, unofficial, but worn.

Attached is from my collection, this was from the clothing storeman in Bovington in the 80's, he collected badges from all the Regiments that turned up for courses, so I'm happy mine is a proper one from the Ayrshire Yeomanry Squadron.

Attachment 2
Photo from an Ayrshire newspaper, November 1994, from an OCA member who was on the parade, wearing the PRI badge, as the Scottish Yeomanry badges had not been issued and they'd left the QOY, the authorities kicked up a stink about this and the RAC mailed fist badge had to be worn.

Attachment 3
This is an OCA members PRI badge, he and a friend wore them unofficially when attached to the 9th/12th Lancers in Germany doing UN training, it was the early 90's, they'd left the QOY and were supposed to be wearing the RAC badge.

Some notes,
The facing left gilding metal collar badge was worn on the field service cap, also the beret by 152 Regt RA.

An interesting badge, it's the same die as the PRI, same goldy metal, but it has the slider mark, JR Gaunt London Ltd, perhaps an earlier badge privately produced by Gaunt for the PRI before the unmarked ones?

All the anodised have been copied, restruck, faked in gilding metal, I had one of the OCA members tell me they bought one from Du Morgi, and wore that!

As you have read, like the KOSB, the badges of family members are handed down to sons, nephews and even friends, so you will see on photographs a few older Badges amongst the issued ones.

I'm still awaiting some information from various sources, so I'll update as and when.

I think that's it, unless anyone has any additions?

I hope this thread is of help to members.

Thank you for taking the time even just to read it.
Cheers
Chris
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20220725_104221492_HDR.jpg (119.7 KB, 31 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20220725_104229135_HDR.jpg (119.0 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg image.jpg (31.7 KB, 17 views)
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  #13  
Old 25-07-22, 06:27 PM
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OCA members, his PRI badge he wore with the 9th/12th in Germany.

That's it chaps, all done, I hope!
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File Type: jpg image.jpg (95.9 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg image.jpg (53.9 KB, 20 views)

Last edited by 3dg; 25-07-22 at 09:19 PM.
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  #14  
Old 25-07-22, 06:33 PM
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Default Thank you

And a huge thank you to the forum members who have helped with their valuable information, and allowed me to use photos of AY Badges from their collections.
Thank you
Chris
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Old 25-07-22, 07:20 PM
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Thank you, Chris, for a valuable comprehensive Ayrshire Yeomanry resource.
Cheers, John
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