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  #1  
Old 10-06-21, 12:56 PM
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Default Is there an anodised Leics PAO Yeomanry?

Gents,
the recent thread about the anodised C&D and L&D cap badges, threw up within it the question of the anodised Leicestershire Yeomanry cap badge.

I know it is quoted in vol.2 of Kipling & King ( ref 1424) - the gilding metal, white metal AND anodised version. There are sealed pattern dates for the former two, but not the anodised.

My question therefore is, did the authors know for sure there was indeed an anodised example ( and how) or were they mistaken or made assumptions that it existed? I believe that Chris M found no MOD reference sources for its manufacture, when researching his own great reference publication.

Could it be that when vol.2 was first published in 1979 that anodised badges were not particularly popular for collectors in the wider sense and therefore in some way 'lip service' was paid to them in some quarters? I do of course gents take nothing away from the fine reference works that both volumes are, but they do have - as is often quoted within forum - errors, be they mistakes or misunderstandings on the part of the authors. We take for granted today, the ability to communicate, connect, purchase and research easily from our armchairs via the Internet- do we not? These books, actually are more impressive when one considers they were 'analogue' in essence.

So, does anyone have any information about the existence of this badge at all? I am fairly confident that one would surely have turned up in front of a forum member here over the years - be they official or otherwise. Amongst us we have some of the rarest and earliest examples of anodised alluminium cap badges that there are - in the possession of collections that must rank as some of the most important in the UK if not internationally.

I have the gilding metal example by Gaunt, which I believe is not the easiest to find.

Would welcome your comments gentlemen

Bess
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Last edited by bess55; 10-06-21 at 01:23 PM.
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  #2  
Old 10-06-21, 01:01 PM
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Bess

I doubt that there was an a/a version and it does not seem to have been on general issue or contracts put out for big order.

It might be worth considering that various anodised base-metal badges were privately made in the 1950s (and subsequently reproduced). It might be one of theses anodised base-metal badges that HK had seen or heard of. or he may have just got it wrong.

Alan
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  #3  
Old 10-06-21, 01:03 PM
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Pattern Card held at IWM
Catalogue number: INS 2173
Production date: 1952
Materials badge, metal: white metal and gilding metal
FULL NAME: badge, standard pattern, Leicestershire Yeomanry (Prince Albert's Own)
SIMPLE NAME: badge, headdress: British
Creator: JR Gaunt London
Category: uniforms and insignia

Card Reverse: Blank.

Card Front: badge, card, seal.

Badge: the crest of the Prince Consort with a scroll above inscribed Prince Albert's Own Yeo and below this another scroll inscribed South Africa 1900-02; badge in white metal, slider in gilding metal.

Card: Inspectorate of Clothing Ministry of Supply Pattern No. 15031 Spec. No. UK/CIC/208B Cat. No. CB 2540 Standard (Working, deleted) Pattern; inscribed, Badges, Cap Leicestershire Yeomanry WM To guide for Spec UK/CIC/2124 in Anodised Aluminium Cat No CB 3183; approved by ORD 17 9-5-1952; authority given as ENC 36 to 54/Officers/4051 (ORD 17) IC/C/1188; signed CA Bird.

Seal: the shield of the Arms of the Board of Ordnance encircled Chief Inspector.

Card attached badge: LEICESTER PRINCE ALBERT'S OWN YEO SOUTH AFRICA 1900-02

The rare gilding metal


The even more rare white metal (Coronation Contingent)
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  #4  
Old 10-06-21, 01:04 PM
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To be honest Alan, that's what I'm alluding to and I think you're right. I'm merely trying to spark some debate.

I suspect that a few badges are quoted as 'anodised' (or anodised alluminium) but are in fact a version of 'tinny/shiney' lightweight metal.
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Old 10-06-21, 01:11 PM
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Brilliant, thanks Griff. Is it fair then to say that there was an intention to produce in A/A but it was never carried out?

I have the pattern card for the large Surrey Yeo ( kings crown) It even states on the card it is the guide for the A/A version, but I believe there isn't one. Interestingly the dates and reference numbers are very close to those you quote from the IWM for the LPAO Yeo ( both under ORD 17).
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Last edited by bess55; 10-06-21 at 01:18 PM.
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  #6  
Old 10-06-21, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bess55 View Post
Is it fair then to say that there was an intention to produce in A/A but it was never carried out?
Sean

I asked around at the OCA, back in 2008 (including Lord Kimball at the Leicester Race Course at an annual event), and to their knowledge there was no AA cap badge. If the Regiment had carried on into the 1960s then I am sure there might have been one made. So we know that only white metal and gilding metal are mentioned on the 1952 pattern (as a guide for a future AA) card held by the IWM.

The Coronation was held in June 1953 and the Regiment amalgamated in 1957. So the 1952 production would have been the last batch of issued cap badges to the LYPAO.

* The LYPAO white metal collar badge was worn by the LDYPAO up until 1963.
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Last edited by GriffMJ; 10-06-21 at 02:02 PM.
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  #7  
Old 10-06-21, 01:43 PM
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Many thanks Griff.

Interesting that the intention was there in 1952 to produce the badge in A/A ( by then it was the intention across the board that all regiments/units have anodised insignia) and yet by '57 when they merged it still hadn't been produced.

All the best chaps

Bess
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  #8  
Old 10-06-21, 02:44 PM
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It was down to the Army being frugal. You had to use up the existing stocks in Donnington stores before they would order any more of the new pattern.

The same thing happened post WW1 with the all brass badge and post WW2 with the National Servicemen wearing plastic cap badges well into the 1950s.
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  #9  
Old 11-06-21, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bess55 View Post
Gents,
the recent thread about the anodised C&D and L&D cap badges, threw up within it the question of the anodised Leicestershire Yeomanry cap badge.

I know it is quoted in vol.2 of Kipling & King ( ref 1424) - the gilding metal, white metal AND anodised version. There are sealed pattern dates for the former two, but not the anodised.

My question therefore is, did the authors know for sure there was indeed an anodised example ( and how) or were they mistaken or made assumptions that it existed? I believe that Chris M found no MOD reference sources for its manufacture, when researching his own great reference publication.

Could it be that when vol.2 was first published in 1979 that anodised badges were not particularly popular for collectors in the wider sense and therefore in some way 'lip service' was paid to them in some quarters? I do of course gents take nothing away from the fine reference works that both volumes are, but they do have - as is often quoted within forum - errors, be they mistakes or misunderstandings on the part of the authors. We take for granted today, the ability to communicate, connect, purchase and research easily from our armchairs via the Internet- do we not? These books, actually are more impressive when one considers they were 'analogue' in essence.

So, does anyone have any information about the existence of this badge at all? I am fairly confident that one would surely have turned up in front of a forum member here over the years - be they official or otherwise. Amongst us we have some of the rarest and earliest examples of anodised alluminium cap badges that there are - in the possession of collections that must rank as some of the most important in the UK if not internationally.

I have the gilding metal example by Gaunt, which I believe is not the easiest to find.

Would welcome your comments gentlemen

Bess
I have the gilding metal by Gaunt - Gaunt B'ham......

Not quite as desirable as your Gaunt London.
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  #10  
Old 11-06-21, 07:03 PM
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.......post 1970 restrikes for collectors market.
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  #11  
Old 11-06-21, 07:10 PM
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Yep, not that I knew at the time I got it - along with some other Gaunt B'ham Yeomanry badges.
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