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  #31  
Old 05-11-14, 12:09 PM
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Default Anodised LDY with loops

Wrong pics . . !

Must be due to the pressure of work!!!!
Rob
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File Type: jpg P1000845.jpg (71.9 KB, 7 views)

Last edited by Sonofacqms; 05-11-14 at 12:15 PM.
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  #32  
Old 05-11-14, 12:20 PM
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Red face LDY

Griff,

Apologies, my LDY has FIRMIN LONDON on the slider.

Rob
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  #33  
Old 05-11-14, 12:26 PM
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Rob.... thats ok I thought I had another rare beast to collect

The LDY by Firmin is a scarce one..... and a two part badge, like the arm badge also. Gaunt made the badge and the arm badge as one part.
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Last edited by GriffMJ; 05-11-14 at 03:49 PM.
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  #34  
Old 05-11-14, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Sonofacqms View Post
Well Guys, I have to admit that my mind does play tricks, I visited my badges today and had a few surprises, yes, the Leeds Rifles was made by JR Gaunt in London, the WWY is on loops and some OSD collar badges I bought I already have . . !

See the classifieds when I get around to putting them on the forum.

It must be old-age . . . !

Regards Rob
Rob,

Acknowledged the Leeds Rifles, at least that's not another variation I now need to source,

Cheers,

Marcus
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  #35  
Old 05-11-14, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by hagwalther View Post
Hi Guys,

Going back to the QOGTR.

While I remember the slider of the badge is also A/A giving two components out of three made of this material (not counting solder, colour dye and gilding).

As such, this hybrid badge is more A/A than any other material and therefore, in my opinion, needs to be recorded with other A/A cap badges.

Regards

Chris
So . . . . along with the MSO brass disc on the aa RCT star and accompanying REME version then . . . .
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  #36  
Old 05-11-14, 08:12 PM
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So . . . . along with the MSO brass disc on the aa RCT star and accompanying REME version then . . . .
Hi Sean,

Not quite.

Although I acknowledge such badges I have not found anything official regarding them. The difference between the QOGTR badge and the others you mention is that the QOGTR badge was officially authorised for issue by the Army Dress Committee as previously stated in this thread.

Regards

Chris
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  #37  
Old 06-11-14, 12:13 AM
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Chris - well true in metal or aa but in a mixture? The front was never manufactured onto the base aa star (we've discussed this at length Chris I know) this is clearly observed in the rear image. Someone has crudely 'created' this mixture which I think we can agree isn't a true Hybrid as the Highland/Lowland Brigades are - i.e. made that way. Who or why is unknown I guess.

The MSO badges were made up (most likely) in Germany and worn (have seen the RCT version and indeed the more usual all brass large disc myself by the Polish tank transporter drivers and dog handlers). Not seen the REME version myself though and am no expert in this particular unit myself, I'm sure others have more in depth knowledge.

But these badges are 'mostly' aa in construction . . . . and must have been sanctioned for wear somewhere - and likely not in a dress committee or have its own NSN.

All the best gents

Bess
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  #38  
Old 06-11-14, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by bess55 View Post
Chris - well true in metal or aa but in a mixture? The front was never manufactured onto the base aa star (we've discussed this at length Chris I know) this is clearly observed in the rear image. Someone has crudely 'created' this mixture which I think we can agree isn't a true Hybrid as the Highland/Lowland Brigades are - i.e. made that way. Who or why is unknown I guess.

The MSO badges were made up (most likely) in Germany and worn (have seen the RCT version and indeed the more usual all brass large disc myself by the Polish tank transporter drivers and dog handlers). Not seen the REME version myself though and am no expert in this particular unit myself, I'm sure others have more in depth knowledge.

But these badges are 'mostly' aa in construction . . . . and must have been sanctioned for wear somewhere - and likely not in a dress committee or have its own NSN.

All the best gents

Bess
Sounds all OK to me Bess.

I wish I could find more info on the MSO badges but came across very little.

If more doco comes to date though then hopefully we could include them in the authorised section of the book which, is the true scope of the publication i.e. those A/A cap badges that were officially authorised for issue.

The converse is that there were many badges authorised but for which no physical evidence is known to exists (well to me at least).

e.g. Household Cavalry (Warrant Officers), KC 16th/5th The Queen’s Royal Lancers, Royal Tank Regiment (large version) with slider, KC The Inns of Court Regiment, RAC (TA) (almost impossible to find in QC) etc.

Regards

Chris
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  #39  
Old 06-11-14, 10:05 AM
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Quote: "...there were many badges authorised but for which no physical evidence is known to exists (well to me at least). e.g... KC 16th/5th The Queen’s Royal Lancers,"

--------------------------------------------------------------

Perhaps this might be of interest? I have always believed it to be a fake or knock-off of some kind.

Sorry no better image of the loops at this time, but they are quite flimsy, with very narrow holes and are not like any other loops or lugs I have ever seen on any other badge.

Best regards to all

William
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  #40  
Old 06-11-14, 03:00 PM
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Hi William - I've got a couple of these peculiarly made items (although not your 16L). I want to say they are Indian or something like that, odd and poorly made. I think Chris does touch on these in his book. They also come with sliders that are short and stubby where the end is bent outwards. From memory I picked up a couple as curios a while back - RAOC with the odd type slider and REME with the same odd 'lugs' north and south. Poorly cast but does have the appearance of being anodised aluminium.

Also a very strange Caernarvon and Denbighshire Yeomanry example where the scroll just shows 'C & D'.

In my opinion they are just poor quality copies with no realistic connection to the British military. I cant substantiate that in anyway, but is my opinion only.

Regards all

Bess
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  #41  
Old 06-11-14, 03:23 PM
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Bess

Is the C&D Yeo in AA or BiM? The BiM I have seen are duff..... I have not seen in AA.

If in AA .... any chance of seeing the images?
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  #42  
Old 06-11-14, 04:44 PM
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Bess,is the scroll fitted in the same way ,the two bent wires ?
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  #43  
Old 06-11-14, 04:57 PM
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Hi Gents, I'll try and post an image at the weekend. Its one of these weird fake aa things. Its cast all in one with a peculiar stubby slider. It does have the appearance of being aa in weight and general appearance, but its an outright fake though.

Its a strange beast.
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  #44  
Old 06-11-14, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post
Quote: "...there were many badges authorised but for which no physical evidence is known to exists (well to me at least). e.g... KC 16th/5th The Queen’s Royal Lancers,"

--------------------------------------------------------------

Perhaps this might be of interest? I have always believed it to be a fake or knock-off of some kind.

Sorry no better image of the loops at this time, but they are quite flimsy, with very narrow holes and are not like any other loops or lugs I have ever seen on any other badge.

Best regards to all

William
Pretty sure this a product of the Azam brothers
Tim
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  #45  
Old 06-11-14, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William View Post
Quote: "...there were many badges authorised but for which no physical evidence is known to exists (well to me at least). e.g... KC 16th/5th The Queen’s Royal Lancers,"

--------------------------------------------------------------

Perhaps this might be of interest? I have always believed it to be a fake or knock-off of some kind.

Sorry no better image of the loops at this time, but they are quite flimsy, with very narrow holes and are not like any other loops or lugs I have ever seen on any other badge.

Best regards to all

William
Hi William,

From our old friend Mr Azam...

3. The M. Azam & Sons Unofficial Commissions
First established in 1917 at Ludhiana (then) India, but moved in 1947 to Lahore, West Pakistan. From the late 1970s, at least, M. Azam & Sons were located at 5-C, Fazal Building, Cooper Road, P.O. Box 1290, Lahore, West Pakistan. (10) At the time they called themselves Army, Police, Navy & Air Force Contractors and Outfitters and were members of the Lahore Chamber of Commerce & Industry.

The main advertised lines of manufacture were:

ALL WORLD ARMY CAP BADGES
(Ask for 1500 Cap Badges Illustrated List for Collector)
MILITARY UNITS METALIC OR SILVER ANODISED
GOLD CAP BADGES SUPPLIED AT VERY REDUCED PRICES

followed by:

WHY PAY 500% MORE WHY NOT SEND US YOUR
REQUIREMENTS SAMPLES BY AIR, WE WILL
QUOTE ROCK BOTTOM PRICE


I always loved the bit at the end re: Why pay 500% more...

A member of the forum here has some M. Azam & Sons sales catalogues, which are possibly dated ‘1-1-74’ but difficult to be 100% re: printing of date..

Unfortunately, quite a few collectors have been buying these items over the years and I have to admit, when a KC KOSB first came my way I had quite a time trying to work out where it came from. In fact, it took me almost a year to track down the company which is still today trading. The obvious entities with these badges is the pitting to the rear of the badge and the flat curved ind lugs with a small hole in.

More information on Azam and other examples are illustrated on pages 193 and 151 of Anodised Aluminium: The 'No Bull' Cap Badge of the British Army.

Regards

Chris
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