British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > British Military Insignia > Formation Signs and Patches

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 22-09-18, 07:20 AM
Mike Jackson's Avatar
Mike Jackson Mike Jackson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,329
Default Wehrmacht - and Allied formation signs

I'm not optimistic, but I have to ask if anyone has a better quality version of thee attached, very poor quality image. It's part of a Wehrmacht document giving the German Intelligence Agencies' take on British and Commonwealth formation signs as at 15 June 1944. Of particular interest is the inclusion of formation signs for notional Corps and Divisions that were introduced into German thinking by the Allied deception planning staff. Any help or leads would be much appreciated.
DBK_German Doc dated 15 Jun 44.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 22-09-18, 10:21 AM
54Bty's Avatar
54Bty 54Bty is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: London, England
Posts: 6,297
Default

Maybe the NAM or IWM has a copy.

Marc
__________________
I am still looking for British Army cloth Formation, Regimental, Battalion, Company and other Unit sleeve badges, from 1980 onwards.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 22-09-18, 10:17 PM
rolfi rolfi is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 84
Default Roger Hesketh's "Fortitude"

Roger Hesketh's "Fortitude" (St. Ermin's Press,1999) has the upper portion of this chart on the back of its book jacket. Credit for the colour image is given to the IWM.

Last edited by rolfi; 22-09-18 at 11:54 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 22-09-18, 10:27 PM
leigh kitchen's Avatar
leigh kitchen leigh kitchen is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,115
Default

Not the same chart but colourful......
http://www.petergh.f2s.com/fortitude.html
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 22-09-18, 11:53 PM
Desert Rat's Avatar
Desert Rat Desert Rat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 240
Default

You might find this book more useful.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg s-l640 (6).jpg (30.4 KB, 33 views)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 23-09-18, 06:00 AM
Mike Jackson's Avatar
Mike Jackson Mike Jackson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,329
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh kitchen View Post
Not the same chart but colourful......
http://www.petergh.f2s.com/fortitude.html
Many thanks - one and all. I captured the image on the dust jacket of Hesketh's book some years ago - excellent, but it's the cropped six lines of sign at the bottom of the 15 Jun 44 updated document that have eluded me. I'll try the IWM. Under "Explanation" the Germans annotated signs with x, xx or xxx to indicate the reliability of the source of their information. The most reliable source was, obviously, actual signs removed from PW's uniforms or vehicles, then images such as sketches prepared by a human agent and finally an agent's description. It fascinating to see how many of the notional signs did actually work their way into German intelligence reporting (helped by the fact that almost every German agent active in UK had been captured and "turned").
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 23-09-18, 06:01 AM
Mike Jackson's Avatar
Mike Jackson Mike Jackson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,329
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Rat View Post
You might find this book more useful.
Thanks. Undoubtedly interesting, but it's the German take on allied signs that I'm looking for. Mike
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 23-09-18, 02:44 PM
Deejayuu's Avatar
Deejayuu Deejayuu is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: County of the White Rose
Posts: 754
Default

Mike,
try this link. Same title, same date, same subject but the insignia is not laid out in the same format. Could the image you took from the book cover have been changed to be be more dramatic omitting many of the blank spaces??

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...heeres&f=false
__________________
Tha’ can allus tell a Yorkshireman,
but tha’ can’t tell ‘im much.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 23-09-18, 03:08 PM
Mike Jackson's Avatar
Mike Jackson Mike Jackson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,329
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deejayuu View Post
Mike,
try this link. Same title, same date, same subject but the insignia is not laid out in the same format. Could the image you took from the book cover have been changed to be be more dramatic omitting many of the blank spaces??

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...heeres&f=false
That is very interesting indeed. Very many thanks for your help in finding this. There are about a dozen signs featured here which do not appear in any other similar document. I'll go through it in slow time and report back!
Mike
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 23-09-18, 05:32 PM
Mike Jackson's Avatar
Mike Jackson Mike Jackson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,329
Default

As an example of the complexities of the deception business - here's an example (fuzzy image below of a rampant white unicorn on black):
15 Motorised Division. Comprised of 33 Mot Bde (5 RB, 13 RB and 31 Hussars) and 77 Mot Bde (6 KRRC, 15 KRRC and 14 RB). Notionally arrived in ME from UK Apr 42 as 15 Armd Div. Converted to 15 Mot Div in Nov 43 and moved to India in Nov 44. Held in Southern Army India as IAFSEA (?) Reserve - located at Belgaum.
DBK_15 Jun 44_New version.02.jpg
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:12 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.