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  #1  
Old 17-07-18, 11:46 AM
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Default what rifles uniform is he wearing?

hi guys
any idea what rifles company this chap was with?
his name was Thomas J. Adams and he served mid to late 1800s in the victorian local forces.
any information on his uniform and on his service would be appreciated
regards
bc
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  #2  
Old 17-07-18, 12:33 PM
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Could be any of hundreds of Rifle Volunteer Corps raised from 1859.

Many choose similar uniforms.

Is there a photograhers details on it? Thats the only way to narrow it down to a County.

A close up of the badge may give you the County number.

regards
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  #3  
Old 18-07-18, 01:53 AM
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G'day BC

I will get my book out and have a look and get back to you.

Regards Phil.
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  #4  
Old 18-07-18, 08:36 AM
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Are you talking Victorian as in the era of QV, or our colony/state of Victoria bc?
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  #5  
Old 18-07-18, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manchesters View Post
Could be any of hundreds of Rifle Volunteer Corps raised from 1859.

Many choose similar uniforms.

Is there a photograhers details on it? Thats the only way to narrow it down to a County.

A close up of the badge may give you the County number.

regards
I am afraid you missed the fact that this is in the Australian section of the forum.
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  #6  
Old 18-07-18, 09:11 AM
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thanks phil
i think only by tracing the name we will reveal the company.

thanks simon, no number visible within the bugle badge and its a copy of a glass plate, so no details.
what i do know is he was definitely Victorian local forces.
here are his arm badges
bc
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  #7  
Old 18-07-18, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wmr-RHB View Post
I am afraid you missed the fact that this is in the Australian section of the forum.
I think you are right.
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  #8  
Old 18-07-18, 12:27 PM
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sorry all
yes, colony of Victoria Australia in the reign of Queen Victoria
bc
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  #9  
Old 28-07-18, 12:25 AM
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G'day BC

Sorry I haven't had time to look this up for you, but yes its Victorian (colony) Pre Federation (ie pre 1901), the rifles regiments wore an American styled uniform in green tones with the hat known as a Kepi flattened on the front with a bugle badge but as far as I know the bugle didn't have a number. I have a bugle off a pouch with screw posts but not a cap badge with lugs, but I also know that Les Stillman has or had a bugle badge with lugs and I don't remember it having a number.

I also have the correct pattern officers leather waist belt with sword slings and a brass snakes clasp, I also have the correct sword to go with the waist belt and it has a stringed bugle in the crotchet on the hilt and a Melbourne retailers name, Mowbray Rowan and Hicks on the top of the blade.

Regards

Phil.

Last edited by Lancer 17; 30-07-18 at 04:55 AM.
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  #10  
Old 29-07-18, 02:50 AM
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thanks phil
no problems. may never find out.
which style bugle/horn badge do you think it is?
looks rather big. oversized.
bc
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  #11  
Old 29-07-18, 04:20 AM
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Hi BC

Well Ive now had a look at George Ward's (who's a friend) book, Victorian Land Forces, 1853 - 1883, which is the Bible on this subject. There are many photos of individuals and groups from this period. The Infantry wore a variety of uniforms and head ware. Most of the uniforms are of the "Hussar" type with frogging or a straight tunic with a single row of buttons down the front and a leather waist belt. Some have a type of "busby" made from either Kangaroo/ Wallaby or Possum skin and the balance the American style of cap shown in your photo that is known as a Kepi. The latter usually have a Bugle badge but the images aren't good enough to make out the detail.

However George shows a Bugle badge as an illustration, this is a Bugle with a QVC but no number in the curl of the bugle.

My pouch badge is 45mm wide by 40mm high and has 2 screw posts N-S with nuts and washers.

Sorry I cant identify the unit and none of the photos in the book have the same back drop. The rifle is however an 1856 pattern .577 Charles Lancaster, Sappers and Miners 2 band short rifle, with oval smooth bore rifling, These weapons were used by most of the Colonial units until the Martini Henry rifle was introduced in the 1870's. I have an example of the rifle which is marked VV on the top of the but plate and its matching bayonet which is brass mounted and has a pipe back. His sword bayonet can be seen between his left leg and the rifle.

I hope that this helps.

Regards

Phil.

Last edited by Lancer 17; 30-07-18 at 04:43 AM.
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  #12  
Old 29-07-18, 08:09 AM
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There was a Thomas W Adams of Castlemaine Rifles, No 2 Company, about 1860.

If you have a look at page 103 of Ward's Victorian Land Forces the Carlton Rifle Company uniform is almost a spitting image, including collar badges!

Keith
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  #13  
Old 30-07-18, 01:23 AM
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Hi Keith

Thanks for that, I take it that your records extend to Pre Fed times, which is good to know.

Looking at the photograph of the Castlemaine company from the 1860's they are all but 1 wearing the straight jacket with a single row of buttons down the front, there is one man on the left in a frogged uniform. Where as in the photo on page 103 of the Carlton Rifle Co Circa 1861 they are wearing the frogged uniform as seen in BC's original photo. So maybe this is the answer. George Wards book shows the Carlton Rifles as being armed with Lancaster rifles in the years from 1863 to 1874, only 577/450 Martini Henry rifles were issued in the years 1879 and 1883. They were disbanded in 1884. That therefore appears to date the photograph to the period 1863 to 1878.

George gives no description of the uniform but it may have been in a variety of Rifles Green. I have a photograph from the Herald Sun newspaper dated 28th May 1998 of the Melbourne University Regiment which dates back to the Mt Alexander Rifles of the 1850's, two men are wearing "period' uniforms and a young lady wears modern Aust Cam uniform. The officer wears the "frogged" type of uniform with toggles, as used on a duffle coat, and a small circular hat (not a Kepi) with a bugle but no number, not like that in the photograph. He is armed with a sword with an 1822 type 3 bar hilt and wears waist belt (about 50mm wide) with a snakes clasp, the other man is wearing the straight fronted uniform with a single row of buttons down the front and a similar waist belt and hat. He is armed with an 1856 pattern Charles Lancaster .577 muzzle loading rifle and the rifle has the bayonet fitted. Both uniforms are in a dull green colour

BC I will email you copies of all the photographs.

Regards

Phil.

Last edited by Lancer 17; 30-07-18 at 04:48 AM.
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