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  #31  
Old 21-08-13, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaudiere1944 View Post
cw2311,

I took this photo back in 2010 of a 1 Can Para Embroidered Beret....before I discovered the close up function on my digital camera and hence the poor picture quality.

It was taken at the Petawawa Museum and was labeled and attributed if I remember correctly to Lt. Col. G.F. Eadie .

Mike

Awesome picture Mike!!

Thank you very much!! Funny thing is I have been in the museum in Petawawa on a few occasions but don稚 recall seeing that beret.

Cheers
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  #32  
Old 23-08-13, 04:18 PM
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cw2311,

You are very welcome...its too bad I could not have gotten a clearer/sharper picture.

My recollection is that this Beret was across from the diorama that had been created showing 1 Can Para landing on D-Day.

Best,
Mike
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  #33  
Old 25-08-13, 06:53 PM
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Gents,

As promised, here are a few pictures of several Scully production 1st Canadian Parachute Battalion officer cap badges. I do have a couple unmarked cap badges as well that I wanted to add to the pictures but just can’t find them at the moment.

Even though all these cap badges have some varying minor features, they all have a couple things in common. They are all slightly convex in their basic shape and all have the standard 5 rivet construction. The position of the maker mark may vary slightly from badge to badge as you can see from the pictures and you will also come across a couple styles or sizes of lugs. A larger thicker style lug and what I have found to be the more commonly seen version, which is the fine or smaller loop style lug.

They also produced screw posts which was just another way of allowing the cap badge to be fixed to the beret a little tighter for wearing. The officer cap badge is much heavier than the standard brass NCO version and therefore had a tendency of drooping on the beret if you didn’t have any homemade stiffener inside the beret behind the cap badge.

As most are probably aware, the brass base of the cap badge was gilded prior to the silver overlay being pinned through the base. If you attempted to apply heat after the badge was gilded, such as soldering or brazing, then you would remove or damage the gilding. The cap badge in the picture that had the lugs removed and replaced with a pin and latch belonged to Ken Arril. It is actually a good example of heat removing the finish. This being said, excessive polishing can also remove the gilding.

Take a close look at the pictures posted, can you see the silver overlay protruding from the backside edges of the badge? Probably not. They have all been hand crafted in such a way that they fit quite nicely over the brass base for that clean ‘finished look’ from either side. They all have finished edges, none of them being rough or jagged.

I hope you enjoy the pictures.

Cheers
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Officer cap badges - backs.jpg (58.3 KB, 131 views)
File Type: jpg Officer cap badge - maker marks.jpg (51.5 KB, 101 views)
File Type: jpg Officerr cap badge - hollow back.jpg (95.8 KB, 98 views)
File Type: jpg Officer cap badge lugs.jpg (46.5 KB, 101 views)
File Type: jpg Officer cap badge - rivets.jpg (45.3 KB, 93 views)
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I知 always interested in purchasing 1st Canadian Parachute Battalion memorabilia.

Last edited by cw2311; 25-08-13 at 08:01 PM.
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  #34  
Old 26-08-13, 12:41 AM
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Here's an example that used to be in my collection.
I'll post a photo of an example I acquired yesterday as soon as I have a chance to take some photos.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 01a.jpg (73.5 KB, 61 views)
File Type: jpg 02.jpg (69.0 KB, 79 views)
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  #35  
Old 26-08-13, 02:35 AM
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Excellent badge Roy,

Thank you for your contribution! I look forward to seeing your recent acquisition.

Cheers
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  #36  
Old 13-09-13, 03:35 AM
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Here is another Officer cap badge for sale on Epay. Nice detail, flat back with lugs! All you need to do is solder or glue the silver overlay and poof! You have cheap filler for your collection.

I like the disclaimer!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/390657303714...84.m1423.l2649


Cheers
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  #37  
Old 13-09-13, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cw2311 View Post
Here is another Officer cap badge for sale on Epay. Nice detail, flat back with lugs! All you need to do is solder or glue the silver overlay and poof! You have cheap filler for your collection.

I like the disclaimer!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/390657303714...84.m1423.l2649


Cheers
These folks are pretty decent in my experience; the disclaimer I think is more in keeping with an honest admission of lack of familiarity with Canadian badges. They are out of the States (Kansas), and they do know their stuff when it comes to US militaria. Of late they have been busting up a pretty impressive and extensive Canadian collection, including a 9th CEF badge a few weeks ago..
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  #38  
Old 13-09-13, 04:09 PM
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Their Pegasus patches are fake as well...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/British-Army...item4859a1d037
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  #39  
Old 27-09-13, 12:40 AM
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Sorry for the delay...here's the badge I picked up recently.
Textbook 5-rivet Scully.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1CPB Officer-01.jpg (91.7 KB, 41 views)
File Type: jpg 1CPB Officer-02.jpg (73.3 KB, 50 views)
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  #40  
Old 27-09-13, 12:41 AM
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Closeup of maker stamp and rivet detail...
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File Type: jpg 1CPB Officer-03.jpg (70.5 KB, 39 views)
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  #41  
Old 27-09-13, 12:48 AM
Brent Walker Brent Walker is offline
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Default Para Badge

A very nice example Roy. Thanks for posting.
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  #42  
Old 27-09-13, 02:10 AM
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Killer badge Roy,

I really like the detail. They definitely are not getting any cheaper.

Thanks for posting it.
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  #43  
Old 23-12-18, 01:53 AM
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Default Officers Canadian Parachute Corps "fused" NOT "riveted" unmarked examples

I am reinvigorating this thread because another example of the "fused" non-pinned/riveted Officers Canadian Parachute Corps cap badge has surfaced. I acquired it in an auction in the UK.

I have diligently gone over this badge measuring to known original "riveted" unmarked examples from vets and there is no difference in measurements at all. They are all dead on.

In addition to that, the fine hatching that exists between the shroud lines of the parachute are present as are the dimpled effects of the top of the canopy and around the letters in the scrolling. The quality of the badge is identical to the "known" originals on the front of the badge. This to include the gilt finish , although darker, and the sharpness and quality of the silver overlay and how they fit to the gilt brass base.

The lugs are soldered on with superior quality and fineness with the gilt colour covering the base of the lugs.

Therefore the only difference between these "fused" examples and the riveted ones is the differing quality of the finish of the base material and how it is finished on the back. On the example I have there are visible file markings on portions of the edge of the base metal. There are visible lumps of metal at the top and just under the parachute. However that said, I need to clarify that...

1. Examples of the original "riveted" version have single and multiple lumps on the back as well.
2. One example of the "fused" badge has the identical backing metal and older gilt finish with the "riveted" indent at the top of the parachute canopy with no lumps.
3. The other "fused" examples with the lumps on the back are using a kind of anodized? metal for the base that I have found on other late war and post war badges (up to 1950's)

There are some other points that need to be stressed. The original tendering of the badge was done in 1943. So it was a competition among several badge makers. THEREFORE Scully Montreal was not the only company to produce samples of the badge. Other Canadian Companies made samples as well. I would think Birks could be one as they also had a branch there. It is almost guaranteed that J.R. Gaunt Montreal made samples as well. So what happened when the Battalion shipped overseas? Well they acquired officers badges there. Gaunt obviously had branches in the UK but there were other badge makers of varying quality. Now in order to see the varying quality of badges available you only need to go as far as original Gaunt, Ludlow, Firmin and SS ltd. made US Parachute Badges. Some I have seen come off US veterans uniforms are of a quality one would expect from a repro or copy.

In addition, while someone originally made the badge with copper pins, it does not mean that the same company, J.R. Gaunt Birmingham /London could not have done away with the pins and create less expensive, less time consuming examples later in the war. There is also the possibility that several UK manufacturers like the above mentioned companies made this same badge in varying degrees of quality.

The problem is, there are so few "known" examples of the unmarked badge out there. The latest member to join the battalion that had examples that I have seen was Lt. Charles Richer of the Film and Photo Unit who joined the battalion in early 1945. The CO Col. Eadie wore one as well but there must have been later officers that joined the Battalion in 1945 who also had them. So far none of these "fused" types have any provenance.

However I recall not too long ago when no one had heard of, or had ever seen, the stamped Scully Montreal version. These are riveted as well with speculation from recollection that a fused example of the stamped example also exists. With regard to those, some are marked and some are not. I would also like to add that "re-strike" or copy Scully Officers badges also exist. These are in brass (solid and stamped) and bronze. As far as I know unmarked but many I have seen are mounted.

I also recall the surprise when the first 1944 dated Maroon Dorothea beret popped out of the woodwork about 20 years ago. So it does not do anyone any good to state outright that this is a "repro". In my opinion until someone can prove otherwise, the traits, quality and lineage point to it being a variation of the officers badge. However at this point to find one with provenance might be very very difficult.

It seems like a lot of work and expense to create a badge where the maker likely does not profit from his crafty-work. I doubt the supposed forger ever made back his troubles in initial sales. I know most airborne collectors and would have heard about this badge if they were "circulating". The first one I saw was at an Ottawa militaria show a few years ago. I was asked for an opinion and if my memory serves me correctly I did not come to any conclusion. Of coarse the common "restrikes and copies" came to mind as a possible source. However If a forger wanted to make money on this he would have been better off making and selling them openly through one of the reinactor suppliers. The brass, gilt and silver work involved could easily net him 200$ per copy. Therefore it does not really make any sense.

I would also like to add that the "known" unmarked badge "re-strikes" or "fantasy" badges have been around for ages. I saw the first one in the 70's. This was the bi-metal version and white metal version and they were stamped. They were of good quality and cut from a die. You can't easily bend the metal by hand. Some originally thought these were late war examples never issued. Although this is not true, no one has ever discovered who made these? I contacted Gaunt and Firmin a long time ago and both denied making them. It is obvious from the quality that these are made from some original equipment. However other later examples of these copies are clearly not made from original equipment and simply molded from a badge.

It is impossible for the badge in question to have been molded from a badge. It is made in the same manner as the originals or the original quality stamped "restrike" "fantasy" badge. So if these are recent creations, someone out there still holds the die from decades ago. This is obvious in the quality and detail and the fact that there is absolutely no difference in measurements with the known originals.

I suppose until one is found in the hands of a vet, this will not be certain, however it is my opinion, especially in seeing a sort of morphing of quality from the 1943 examples through the unmarked, unpinned examples, that these can very well be good.

I will keep my eyes open and if anything new develops will post.

Last edited by Force136; 23-12-18 at 05:19 PM.
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  #44  
Old 24-12-18, 10:04 PM
Force136 Force136 is offline
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Default Officers Canadian Parachute Corps "fused" NOT "riveted" unmarked examples

I have been doing some badge comparisons and will post some photos of badges so comparisons can be made.

First there is the "Minden Militaria" example of the fused unmarked badge in question. This is followed by a known original riveted unnmarked example. Not e the near identical gilt, wear and age. Also note the near identical gilt base material with the same indent at the top of the parachute canopy. The only thing missing on the "Minden" badge is the rivets.

I will post more soon, but now I must be off to the salt picked ham before it self ignites!

Ken
Attached Images
File Type: jpg front1.jpg (45.5 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg back1.jpg (43.7 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg back2.jpg (46.5 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN1965.jpg (36.3 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN1967.jpg (42.6 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN1966.jpg (35.1 KB, 10 views)
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  #45  
Old 24-12-18, 10:18 PM
Force136 Force136 is offline
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Default Examples of the original "fused" re-strike and other copies

Here are some examples of the original supposed re-strike badge and others made from a mold of the badge. Note the varying quality.

Ken
Attached Images
File Type: jpg cdn para.jpg (67.7 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg CP-5c, Canadian Parachute Corps, bim, slider, 1945, 60$.JPG (106.0 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg download (1).jpg (98.5 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg dsc01913.jpg (54.5 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN1971.jpg (19.9 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN1972.jpg (27.4 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN1973.jpg (24.3 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN1976.jpg (21.8 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg Ludd 005.jpg (96.2 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg s-l1600.jpg (82.8 KB, 6 views)
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