SLI beret size badges

[cbuehler]

All,
Does anyone know just when the small Somerset LI "beret" size badge was in use? I had been under the assumption that it came about in ww2, but now I am not so sure. Thanks.

CB

[Luke H]

CB,

The beret badge came into use in the 50's.

Cheers,

Luke

[cbuehler]

Thanks for clearing that up Luke.

CB

The Somerset Light Infantry beret badge was also worn in WW2, there are a few photos dated 1942 which shows you the small pattern badge worn on a black beret.

[cbuehler]

Hmm. Now I am confused. The example I have is indeed the small size with slider by Gaunt (yes, the correct extremely small type letters). Did Gaunt continue with this marking into the 1950's? Perhaps that might help in dating.

CB

[Alan O]

They were certainly making badges (not necessarily SLI) in the late 1940s with the very small mark and switched to the large font in the early 1950s.

A black beret would be exceptionally unusual for an infantry regt in 1942. A beret of any type outside of the RAC/RM/Para etc would be unusual as most of the line infnatry were wearing Side caps/Caps GS until the post war switch to berets. It would imply an armoured regt.

Alan

[Luke H]

I checked Gaylor and he gives the beret badge as coming in during the 50's, yet another one of his peccadillos... I'd trust the photographic evidence every time. Perhaps Julian has a date for us when this pattern was sealed and orders were placed?

I would certainly have said they would have been far more common post war

Luke

[cbuehler]

Well, now this is getting interesting. I would certainly love to see pictorial evidence of the small badge in use during the war. As I mentioned previously, I was under the impression for a very long time that the small badge came out during the war. But could it have been collar dogs that were used as beret badges at the time?

CB

[cbuehler]

The badge itself.

CB

[KLR]

The "small" PASLI badge was sealed in 1930. It replaced the 1898 pattern. I think the size changed again later, not sure.

The problem is the general assumption that "small" badges were specifically made / sealed for wear on a beret - they were NOT. After the 2nd WW many badges WERE reduced in size and this may have reflected the increasing use of the beret but most were still sealed for wear on "caps". The small King's badge for example (Pattern 14312/1950) was officially sealed for wear on caps though WO files on this particular one refer to it being designed for wear on ALL types of headgear.
Julian

[cbuehler]

Very interesting info from KLR here! I am sure this will be a surprise to others as well. It would seem that my particular badge could be wartime issue then.

CB

[Alan O]

These are the 2 badges side by side. The small ones are relatively rare so I always thought that the full sized ones were still around during WW2. Especially as there was no plastic economy version to reduce the numbers produced.

Alan

[KLR]

I wasn't sure about the longevity of the small one. There are Ministry of Supply records for badge production 1939-1946 at the NA, so I'll check on PASLI production next time I'm there.

[Old Smelly]

Attached two pics from my Somerset LI collection. 1st is Sgt Harris, 4th battalion on home leave after being wounded, late '44 with small badge in his GS cap. 2nd is two shots of SD caps with different badges, left hand is a member of 2nd Bn, early 1930s, right hand is a member of 4th Bn early WW2(note pre WW2 great coat). Fairly certain the rh pic is the smaller type of badge. I also have a side cap from a local HG soldier which has the smaller type badge.
Lee

[leigh kitchen]

Keener eye than me, I can't be sure they're not all three the large sized badge.