ASC cap badge 1911-1918 - two variants

[Markus Bodeux]

Hello gentlemen,

i have these two cap badges for the Army Service Corps in my small collection, i guess both are the KK 990 OR 1911-1918 in gilding metal.
1) die struck in two parts, crown, garter and wreath are fixed on the star with 4 prongs. Two lugs east and west, the makers mark J.R.GAUNT LONDON stamped in one line to the reverse center. 18,3g, star 42mm diameter.
2) die struck in one part, reverse hollow, slider. No makers mark, 11,0g, star 44mm diameter.

I guess No.2 is the common, public supplied, version for other ranks, and No.1 could be a private purchased item in better quality, may be by an NCO ?

Thanks in advance for any comments,
kind regards
Markus

[irishhorse]

Second badge looks to be an officer's service dress badge.

[Sonofacqms]

Second badge is an officers service dress collar badge.

Rob

[Markus Bodeux]

Thanks gentlemen,

the Gaunt-badge with lugs could be an OSD-badge, may be it was dark bronze and some of the finish has been polished down and is a little bit discoloured now .... ?
Collar badge ? Here two quick shots next to a pair of Gaunt-collar badges, they have 28mm in diameter ...... much smaller.

Kind regards
Markus

[Hoot]

Markus, the OSD collar badges of the 1911-1918 period were the same size as the cap badges, the only difference being in the fixings. The cap badges had tangs and the collar badges had lugs like the one you have.

[dubaiguy]

An old photo I have to hand showing on the bottom line a full cap size lugged OSD collar alongside a cap on blades.

As they are both the same size, I can't say that in practice the OSD collar was never worn in the cap, but if you want a truly representative OSD cap example for your collection, I would look for one on blades.

Mark

[Markus Bodeux]

Thanks Mark and Hoot,
i understand, something absolutely new for me.
Until today i thought that collar badges have had always a smaller size than the cap badges.

So in the early 20th century they were larger, when did the size change ? I have some literature about cap badges, but nothing about the collars ....
I will enclose this one in my collection as "..perhaps worn on a cap... " but a similar badge with blades (or slider ?) is now on my wish list.

Mark - the two badges in upper row are real beautys, that is the proceeding version with slim cypher and black enameled medaillon background for officers ?
Also on my wishlist ....

Thanks for all explanations,
kind regards
Markus

[Alan O]

Officers service dress cap badges were often full size and lugged. You need a badge with blades.

[Hoot]

Originally Posted by Markus Bodeux

Thanks Mark and Hoot,
i understand, something absolutely new for me.
Until today i thought that collar badges have had always a smaller size than the cap badges.

So in the early 20th century they were larger, when did the size change ? I have some literature about cap badges, but nothing about the collars ....
I will enclose this one in my collection as "..perhaps worn on a cap... " but a similar badge with blades (or slider ?) is now on my wish list.

Mark - the two badges in upper row are real beautys, that is the proceeding version with slim cypher and black enameled medaillon background for officers ?
Also on my wishlist ....

Thanks for all explanations,
kind regards
Markus

The change to smaller OSD collar badges came in 1919 with the introduction of the RASC GvR cypher badges.

[Markus Bodeux]

Thanks for all the informations and advices gentlemen !

Is the book/catalogue by Churchill/Westlake a source to get more knowledge about collar badges ? Or is there an other publication ?

Kind regards
Markus

[dubaiguy]

It depends where your interest actually lies. If infantry then Churchill's 'History of the British Army Collar Badge' is a must.

Churchill & Westlake's 'British Army collar badges 1881 - Present' widens the scope to include cavalry and Corps etc, but is a small book and thus somewhat limited.

If your interest is ASC/RASC then there is absolutely no better book in my opinion than 'Badges of the Empire's Waggoners' by McHenry & Kellock.
Mark

[Markus Bodeux]

Thank you Mark for this advice !
My actual interest are badges of corps and departments, so the book about "empire´s waggoneers" should be very, very interesting, i found some descriptions and pics, and with 480 pages it will be a very good source.
The books by Churchill and Churchill/Westlake are available everywhere for small money, so i will buy them at once.
If someone will sell a copy of the "empire´s waggoneers" i would be happy for any offer.

Kind regards
Markus