Sherwood Foresters Derbyshire badges question

[RSM]

I'm sorting through my collection weeding out repros/restrikes etc. I've had these for a couple of years and always wondered why they are different? I assume a Victorian crown and can find no obvious maker's mark. All other examples I've seen on the web seem to have a silver cross and gold wreath, are voided under the crown and are described as officers. Mine are different, and I suspect that they are then Other Ranks? But if so, why can I not find other examples like mine on the web? Surely OR versions would outnumber the officers? Or am I just stupid and missing something obvious? I haven't got access to my K&K's to check there so would welcome as ever all and any comment.

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by RSM

I'm sorting through my collection weeding out repros/restrikes etc. I've had these for a couple of years and always wondered why they are different? I assume a Victorian crown and can find no obvious maker's mark. All other examples I've seen on the web seem to have a silver cross and gold wreath, are voided under the crown and are described as officers. Mine are different, and I suspect that they are then Other Ranks? But if so, why can I not find other examples like mine on the web? Surely OR versions would outnumber the officers? Or am I just stupid and missing something obvious? I haven't got access to my K&K's to check there so would welcome as ever all and any comment.

Only the officers badges were worn in facing pairs, and as you say were silver crosses with gilt wreaths. As your badges are not facing pairs, are brass or gilt as per OR’s patterns, and yet have a blue enamel centre, I suspect that they are badges for the First Class (most superior) tunic worn by the two battalion warrant officers, but also QMS, Musketry Sergeant and Drum Major.

[RSM]

Thank you very much. So if I understand you the OR's collars as worn back in the day were not facing each other? I just assumed I just had two facing left, not a 'matching pair', but you're saying they are a pair? Most interesting.

It's a shame one of the collars is damaged. Is it possible to put an approx date on these badges, and are there any clues in the construction as to who may have made them?

Thanks again Toby, much appreciated.

Richard.

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by RSM

Thank you very much. So if I understand you the OR's collars as worn back in the day were not facing each other? I just assumed I just had two facing left, not a 'matching pair', but you're saying they are a pair? Most interesting.

It's a shame one of the collars is damaged. Is it possible to put an approx date on these badges, and are there any clues in the construction as to who may have made them?

Thanks again Toby, much appreciated.

Richard.

Glad to help Richard.

1. Yes, OR badges were not in facing pairs, but officers badges were.

2. The badges with title ‘Derbyshire’ were replaced from 1903 with ‘Notts & Derby’. I don’t see any clue from the construction method as to who might have made them.

NB. Until 1903 there was some degree of bitterness within the two battalions and their associated Militia because the Junior regiments (95th’s) County was included in the new regiment’s title whereas the the senior regiment (45th) initially had their County association abandoned (in favour of ‘Sherwood Foresters’ - which had been a Militia not regular title). It took until 1903 for that to be resolved.

[RSM]

Thanks again Toby. The knowledge on this forum is amazing and thanks for sharing yours. I've learned something new and you've given the badges a back story that would have otherwise taken a long time for me to uncover. For certain these ones don't go into the Box Of Shame

[Frank Kelley]

It is certainly a curious thing, you would just assume that collars face, but, not always so.
Many years ago when I used to collect the pre 1914, golden age period, I ended up with a huge number of ranker's shoulder titles, cap and collar badges from South Africa, and always wondered why I had so many facing pairs of the latter with the exception of the Derbyshire Regiment.

Originally Posted by RSM

Thank you very much. So if I understand you the OR's collars as worn back in the day were not facing each other? I just assumed I just had two facing left, not a 'matching pair', but you're saying they are a pair? Most interesting.

It's a shame one of the collars is damaged. Is it possible to put an approx date on these badges, and are there any clues in the construction as to who may have made them?

Thanks again Toby, much appreciated.

Richard.