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#46
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But I would expect them to refer not to a uniform item for all Sgts and WOs but only to a duty sash when performing regimental duties, and as such not rank specific because as I understand it, Cpls sometimes do wear it when orderly corporal. But it also begs another question, if Royal Signals Sgts and WOs all wear red sashes on Public Duties at Buckingham Palace which they do, surely that's contrary to their own dress regs? |
#47
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Hi Toby,
I hope you don't mind me, as a newbie on here, making an observation about your picture. The two men wearing the sashes are wearing the insignia of Warrant Officers Class 2. The guy on the left without a sash wears no insignia on his sleeves, but notice the fancy epaulettes, and different cap badge. he appears to be an officer and as such would wear a Sam Browne. Rizzo. |
#48
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Hi Rizzo,
I think you are on track regarding the warrant officer detail. There's a remarkably similar trio photo on this site (link below). I believe is was because at that time, only the Sergeant Major and the Band Master were appointed warrant officers; and the regimental school master had the same status, although wasn't badged as such. Army Schoolmasters wore the Queen Victoria crown as a cap badge. (anyone own one?) The major difference with these photos and Toby's picture of the Northamptonshire Regt WOs and Schoolmaster is that the sergeants and WOs on these pictures are not wearing the infantry sash - this is because they were a rifle regiment and not infantry of the line, (a tradition maintained today by The Rifles and the Royal Gurkha Rifles). http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/RoyalIrishRifles2nd.htm Last edited by Carnforth; 22-08-16 at 07:23 AM. |
#49
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The red sash has been worn on blues for ceremonial and were worn at the Palace when the Corps mounted wearing Blues a few years ago - blue on blue really would not work would it? Likewise depending on the occasion you may see green belts being worn on FAD but pool-loan white belts have also been worn on parades. Dress regs are flexible and change all the time. For example up until a few years ago Signals officers wore a Sam Browne in No1 dress. They now wear crossbelts. What changed? The SOinC at the time. |
#50
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Alan
Thanks for the detail of the duty sash as worn by Royal Signals. However, the incongruity of a corps with 'mounted' antecedents and accoutrements wearing the Infantry Sgts sash by all WOs and Sgts as a parade uniform either Buckingham Palace or anywhere else , is something one either accepts or not. Clearly, it's something that the Army Board accepts, (the incongruity, that is) hence the 'permitted list' in Clothing Regs quoted earlier in the thread. We are not going to agree on the points in your second paragraph so for the sake of harmony, especially as a newcomer to the forum, I won't address them. I do hope the thread continues though as it's thrown up one or two things of interest, for example, Army Schoolmasters. Regards Last edited by Carnforth; 22-08-16 at 02:56 PM. |
#51
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What are the "mounted antecedents" of the R Sigs please?
They are descended from the RE. Some of the RE were indeed mounted, many were not. As witness both "trumpeters" and "buglers" authorised for RE. Then again, RE had "companies". Truth to tell the R Sigs can reasonably claim foot and horse ancestry, surely? However, I for one am not at all relaxed about the scarlet sash being permitted beyond the infantry, as it certainly bucks tradition. |
#52
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In Canada
SASHES
28. These accoutrements indicate rank and authority. 29. Officer and CWO Rank a. Approved officer rank sashes (worn also by CWOs) are authorized for wear with Royal Military College (RMC), infantry, and air force full dress (No. 1B), and all army undress, (optional Nos. 1C and 1D – authorized for wear by RMC officer cadets and the Militia only) where cross belts are not worn. b. Officers and CWOs shall wear waist sashes fastened on the left hip, except those in kilted units, who wear sashes over the left shoulder falling off the right hip. c. Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry officers and CWOs and those in kilted units may wear sashes while carrying swords with No. 1 order of dress. 30. Warrant Officer and Sergeant Rank Sashes a. Approved warrant officer and sergeant shoulder rank sashes are authorized for wear with RMC, infantry, and air force (see subparagraph 31.b.) ceremonial orders of dress at all times, and with No. 2B mess service dress and Nos. 3 and 3B service orders while on unit duty in accordance with environmental and regimental policy. b. The shoulder sash is worn from the right shoulder falling off the left hip, unless worn in conjunction with a Scottish broad sword shoulder belt, when it is worn from the left shoulder falling to the right. Sashes are worn over trouser and waist belts, and over greatcoats and topcoats when a waist belt is also worn overall as a ceremonial accoutrement. 31. Sash Colours a. RMC and army sashes are crimson or scarlet, depending on the rank group, except as noted: (1) the RMC cadet wing commander wears a crimson sash with gold tassels; (2) foot guard officers wear a crimson and gold sash on state occasions; and (3) officers of Les Fusiliers Mont-Royal wear a “flechée” sash. b. Air force sashes are deep maroon and only worn by pipe band members. |
#53
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The following may be of interest, though; This is from the MOD Army site regarding the Royal Signals Corps Band Quote:
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#54
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Signals Service formations were classified as mounted. Quote:
I would expect that his uniform of bandolier, riding crop and spurs, with different insignia would have been the same for his Royal Corps of Signals counterpart after 1920. http://www.reubique.com/210903.htm Last edited by Carnforth; 23-08-16 at 05:19 PM. |
#55
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#56
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No sign of sashes worn on their recent presentation of a guidon to celebrate their 60th anniversary. http://http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/update/2017-07-06/prince-charles-celebrates-army-air-corps-60th-anniversary/ Edited to add; Perhaps guidon is a clue why the infantry sergeants sash is not part of their dress regs Last edited by Carnforth; 07-07-17 at 09:38 AM. |
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