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  #1  
Old 27-07-21, 06:18 PM
Reid10 Reid10 is offline
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Default Questionable Para and SAS beret Badges and 15th Middlesex (London Scottish) Badge

Forum Experts,

A recent purchase included some questionable badges I hope you can help with.

The first two, the para and SAS, immediately strike me as fakes. Both are made from a very light material (plastic?), the para badge is too small, and the SAS do not wear a metal beret badge. Maybe something commemorative given out to unit members? Or a novelty sold in the regimental shop?

The second one I am not as sure about. It appears to be a cap badge for the 15th Middlesex (London Scottish) Rifle Volunteer Corps. It has the right design and four thistle leaves. However, it has a broach-like pin back, not lugs. It might be a piece of jewelry, but I wanted to ask for your expert opinions before I give it to someone to use as a broach.

The badge is a little under 2 inches wide.

I collect post-WWII Scottish regimental headgear, so my limited knowledge on this badge is from Bloomer and online sources.

Regards

Reid
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  #2  
Old 27-07-21, 06:21 PM
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The Para and SAS are 1970's staybrights. The SAS was sealed for the TA regiment. Both were also made in large numbers for the collectors market. £6 to £8 each.
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  #3  
Old 28-07-21, 01:07 AM
Reid10 Reid10 is offline
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Thank you, Alan. I really appreciate your expertise. I did not know versions of these badges were made for this purpose in the 1970s. The age makes sense, because the seller said he received them around that time. Based on their construction, it makes also sense they were made as collectibles.

Luckily what I was after was the kilmarnock balmoral that came in the group marked with a Broad Arrow and 1952.

Regards,

Reid

Last edited by Reid10; 28-07-21 at 01:25 AM.
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  #4  
Old 28-07-21, 05:18 AM
Alex Rice Alex Rice is offline
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I would not be able to say for sure but just looking at the construction and rear detail, I would think the 15th Middlesex is genuine, just had the original lugs replaced with a brooch.
Cheers,
Alex
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  #5  
Old 28-07-21, 11:08 AM
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Both the para and sas badges are anodized aluminium and are not any different from military badges from the period, they might feel cheap and lightweight but are the same as issue badges and the para badge is possibly an issue badge.
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Jerry
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  #6  
Old 28-07-21, 11:28 AM
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Those thistles are found with both original steel pins and loop fixings for headdress plus occasionally clips for the sporran.

Keith Hook told me in 1951 he knew and met a member of the London Scottish who joined as a very young man pre-1907 and he showed him his original badge from his 7th (London Scottish) Middlesex RVC days. That badge had such a steel pin fixing.

My hunch is steel pin for the 7th Middx RVC and loops for the Boer War era Royal Scottish Reserve Regiment.
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  #7  
Old 28-07-21, 05:30 PM
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Thistle badge seen worn here in the Glengarry and the cantle:

JT London Scottish.jpg14 40.jpg14 39.jpg

Last edited by Jelly Terror; 28-07-21 at 06:02 PM.
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  #8  
Old 28-07-21, 06:45 PM
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I had this down as London Scottish 1859 - 1908 - with loops.
Mark
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  #9  
Old 28-07-21, 08:51 PM
Reid10 Reid10 is offline
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Gentlemen,

Thank you very much for all of your replies.

I appreciate the expertise on this forum and have benefited from it several times. I learn something new every time I visit the forum and use the search function quite a bit. I am building up my own knowledge, so that one day I can answer questions, not always be the one asking them.

So, if I can summarize. It appears that I have two genuine slider cap badges from the 1970s and a 15th (London Scottish) RVC glengarry badge (1859-80) with one ring removed and a steel pin added with the other lug "cut" to accommodate the pin. (See side profile of the cut lug).

The badge was likely repurposed and worn by member of the 7th Middlesex RVC (1880-1908).

I truly love this hobby.

Thank you again,

Reid
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  #10  
Old 28-07-21, 09:02 PM
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You have two original staybrites from the 1970s or later. In the case of the SAS badge these have been produced in prodigious quantities specifically for the collector market so it all hinges on your definition of originality there as it’s likely never been within a mile of anyone in the SAS nor made in a batch intended for them.

The fixings on the thistle are as made, no loops/lugs have been cut and it is not converted. Date-wise it will be 1880s-1907.
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  #11  
Old 28-07-21, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke H View Post
You have two original staybrites from the 1970s or later. In the case of the SAS badge these have been produced in prodigious quantities specifically for the collector market so it all hinges on your definition of originality there as it’s likely never been within a mile of anyone in the SAS nor made in a batch intended for them.

The fixings on the thistle are as made, no loops/lugs have been cut and it is not converted. Date-wise it will be 1880s-1907.
Just to add to Luke's comments... pre-TF thistle badge would still have been worn among some units for a short period follwing the inception of the TF (1908).

The images below show it being worn in the Glengarry and cantle by members of the TF who are also sporting the 'T/14/LONDON' metal shoulder title (Westlake 1527):

14 2.jpg 14 3.jpg 14 9.jpg 14 10.JPG

JT
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  #12  
Old 28-07-21, 10:19 PM
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Nice pic JT. Is it 1908/09 summer camp per chance?

Here’s a badge with the fixing for the sporran.
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  #13  
Old 28-07-21, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke H View Post
Nice pic JT. Is it 1908/09 summer camp per chance?

Here’s a badge with the fixing for the sporran.
Seems highly likely, Luke.

JT
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  #14  
Old 28-07-21, 10:48 PM
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Keith Blakeman Keith Blakeman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jelly Terror View Post
Just to add to Luke's comments... pre-TF thistle badge would still have been worn among some units for a short period follwing the inception of the TF (1908).

The images below show it being worn in the Glengarry and cantle by members of the TF who are also sporting the 'T/14/LONDON' metal shoulder title (Westlake 1527):

JT
Scared me for a minute when I read that. T/14/County of London to be pedantic
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  #15  
Old 28-07-21, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Blakeman View Post
Scared me for a minute when I read that. T/14/County of London to be pedantic

Mainwaring.jpg
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