Part one of my Holy Grail

[Sonofacqms]

As a very young lad I was always interested in a photograph that was hanging in my Paternal Grandparents bedroom, a head and shoulders profile of a Private in the Buffs, who, when I asked who he was I was told "Grandad's brother Billy" with little other information apart from the fact he died in the Great War.

Move on to 1966 and my Grandmother decided after 30 years as a publican to retire, I had a week 's holiday and my Father and I moved her out into a retirement cottage down the road, the photo went missing . . !

Tuesday 26th April 2022 we went to visit some family who live on the coast in Essex and over a cup of tea and cake my namesake Rob gave me a folder and said "this is for you", to my surprise the items in the photo were there, dusty, damaged and found I think in a loft before a house move, they are one of my most treasured items.

Any help and advice from members as to how I should deal with this treasured item would be welcome as would any information on Private William Andrews who served in The Buffs and died in 1918.

I have thought about adding to the certificate and death plaque at least a cap badge and the medal ribbons of the Victory and War medal, these original medals have been missing probably for nearly 100 years and my guess is that as Billy had two surviving brothers and a sister, one had the Photo, one had the certificate and plaque and the other the two medals, so again any help would be appreciated especially if anyone knows of the medals whereabouts.

I intend to re-frame the two items and wonder whether as I said to add the cap badge plus ribbons, also shoulder titles, but which would have been worn in 1918, brass BUFFS or cloth slip-ons?

All help appreciated

Rob

[Luke H]

The frame is likely from 1918 I suspect so I would not re-frame it, however, it looks due a little TLC.

The death plaque I would potentially frame separately in one sympathetic to the certificate.

Personally I’d not add badges, shoulder titles etc. to the group or if you did do that in a separate frame entirely.

I’m glad these have been found for you and your family.

[Sonofacqms]

Luke, thanks for your ideas on this item, to say the frame needs tlc is a bit of an understatement, the frame like many contemporary ones had plaster added to the wood which has now fallen off in places and I cannot replace it.

I have not touched the frame yet, but I cannot think why the certificate was framed and the plaque was not, maybe it arrived with the medals after the framing.

Rob

[Home Guard]

I think Luke has hit it perfectly. I would do just as he suggests were it mine.

Terry

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Sonofacqms

As a very young lad I was always interested in a photograph that was hanging in my Paternal Grandparents bedroom, a head and shoulders profile of a Private in the Buffs, who, when I asked who he was I was told "Grandad's brother Billy" with little other information apart from the fact he died in the Great War.

Move on to 1966 and my Grandmother decided after 30 years as a publican to retire, I had a week 's holiday and my Father and I moved her out into a retirement cottage down the road, the photo went missing . . !

Tuesday 26th April 2022 we went to visit some family who live on the coast in Essex and over a cup of tea and cake my namesake Rob gave me a folder and said "this is for you", to my surprise the items in the photo were there, dusty, damaged and found I think in a loft before a house move, they are one of my most treasured items.

Any help and advice from members as to how I should deal with this treasured item would be welcome as would any information on Private William Andrews who served in The Buffs and died in 1918.

I have thought about adding to the certificate and death plaque at least a cap badge and the medal ribbons of the Victory and War medal, these original medals have been missing probably for nearly 100 years and my guess is that as Billy had two surviving brothers and a sister, one had the Photo, one had the certificate and plaque and the other the two medals, so again any help would be appreciated especially if anyone knows of the medals whereabouts.

I intend to re-frame the two items and wonder whether as I said to add the cap badge plus ribbons, also shoulder titles, but which would have been worn in 1918, brass BUFFS or cloth slip-ons?

All help appreciated

Rob

Rob,

Wonderful family treasures.

With regard to your request for any info on William, the following is available via the CWGC website. You may of course already have these details though.

Regards,

JT

D498B475-6E3B-40B0-B4A6-19FBA89140BA.jpg

PS - I should have mentioned that of the three William Andrews listed as having fallen with the East Kents, this was the only man whose death is recorded as 1918 (as per your post).

[Sonofacqms]

Indeed it is a treasure to me and I think I may try and restore the original frame, although my worry is that in the future the death plaque may not be kept with the certificate and go astray.

Thanks for your comments and thanks JT for your link, I understand that Bill died in a hospital after receiving injuries from shellfire from what I remember my Grandparents telling me.

Work in progress . . !

Rob

[gurkharifles]

Hi Rob - I wish you joy of your "Holy Grail" - however my personal view is you should go ahead and create a framed tribute to your Great Uncle with whatever items you can find that you think appropriate. My reason is quite simple whilst I agree it's important to try and keep the historical integrity of an item ( ie frame and certificate) - I think it's more important to honour his memory and create a tribute that will have meaning for future generations. I shared this story of something I did for my Godson on his 18th Birthday - his family had one medal and a photo - ( both hidden away in a drawer ) - suffice to say the frame now takes pride of place in the house and is a conversation piece for every new visitor - and so his memory lives again.
https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...hlight=bulloch

One other thing is I would try and reach out to the family via Ancestry.com and look for the medals that way - odds are if they are still with the family they are probably hidden away in a box in a cupboard - explaining what you are doing, offering to share all the info ( even purchase the medals ) might lead to them being reunited with plaque. ( We found John Bulloch's War Medal in this way ) - Alternatively use medals to the Buffs in the frame ?
Good luck and let us know what you did in the end. Tim

[Jelly Terror]

This being ‘part one’ of your holy grail suggests there may be other parts, Rob. Might these be William’s medals or are there other, unconnected grails?

JT

[Waterloo1815]

Rob,
That's a great find. It depends how much you are willing to spend on framing etc. My dad's medals, badges, dog tags, and photo are currently away for framing. I have included my 48 page doc of his service (2nd Batt The Buffs, from 1940 through to the end of 1945), which is being sealed in the back of the frame for future generations to discover. Total cost is £110. As per Luke's comment, I would not take the certificate out of its original frame. Might be worth getting a quote for a deep frame that could include your original frame, plus the 'death penny', and any other badges etc you want to add. Also, leave a space in case his medals ever turn up. Won't be cheap, but would look stunning on your wall.
Regards,
Leo

[Sonofacqms]

That is not a bad idea getting a large frame and putting the original small frame in it with the certificate and the plaque.

I think my photos did not quite show the frame as it is, damaged, dirty with the glass slipping and the back paper torn, if I can restore it in some way half decent then this is the course I will take.

The photo of Bill was probably taken by a local second hand furniture dealer, but there has been a lot of water under the bridge since 1966 and although still in business I doubt whether the dealer could shed any light on it if indeed he bought it, so I remain hopeful . . !

All Bill's immediate family have long since passed as have most of his nephews and nieces if not all and as we are a fairly small family I do not know of anyone else who might shed light on the medals or even be aware of them, but again, even after being a collector for years things do turn up.

Thank you for your recent comments and I will keep you updated on the work in progress.

Regards Rob

[Waterloo1815]

Might be worth putting an alert on thesaleroom.com for the medals listing his name, regiment, service number etc. I've done this for several of my relatives who served in WW1 and who's medals are MIA. No luck yet, but I live in hope.
Leo

[Sonofacqms]

Leo, that is a good idea, I should scour the medal dealers lists as well, something for the future no doubt.
Best wishes Rob

[Sonofacqms]

Originally Posted by Jelly Terror

This being ‘part one’ of your holy grail suggests there may be other parts, Rob. Might these be William’s medals or are there other, unconnected grails?

JT

JT, I would love to find my Father's original Royal Engineers cap badge that started me off on collecting militaria, I think I exchanged it years ago, it had a distinctive stain on the RH side.

Rob

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Sonofacqms

JT, I would love to find my Father's original Royal Engineers cap badge that started me off on collecting militaria, I think I exchanged it years ago, it had a distinctive stain on the RH side.

Rob

Never say ‘never’, Rob.

I have my dad’s original East Anglia cap badge from the late-50s. I’d love to have had his original Royal Norfolk badge too, but assume he handed it back at the time of the amalgamation.

JT

[Sonofacqms]

Originally Posted by Luke H

The frame is likely from 1918 I suspect so I would not re-frame it, however, it looks due a little TLC.

The death plaque I would potentially frame separately in one sympathetic to the certificate.

Personally I’d not add badges, shoulder titles etc. to the group or if you did do that in a separate frame entirely.

I’m glad these have been found for you and your family.

This reply set me thinking, the certificate was almost certainly framed for my Great Grandparents and hung in their house until they died, probably their daughter cleared the house and kept the frame passing it on to her daughter who gave it to her son and then on to me.

The only link I have with my Great Grandparents, so a little TLC was applied.

Rob