Are these fakes ???

[thursdaychris]

I've been looking closely at Cambs badges lately, as it seems that those with flat topped shields might well be from the Martin Marsh stable. One such badge appears on Ebay this morning, listed for the princely sum of £2.99, it looks very good to me, really, what do you think? How does it compare with the second badge shown? this has a hole in it, and will probably never sell, but it also has a flat topped shield, however, it has rectangular braze holes, is this one more likely to be a genuine piece?

[Alan O]

Have you considered the possibility that the hole to the front is someone going too far with a hole cutter when they were trying to give credibility to a Marsh catalogue badge?

[thursdaychris]

Oh dear, that certainly might explain how the hole came to be there.

[Neil s]

The two badges are not from the same die and the hole appears to be burnt though I don't know of a way of producing a square cornered hole except by punching which would suggest the holes are contemporary with the manufacture

[Alex Rice]

Just a thought regarding the burnt through hole. The vent holes are to allow excess solder to flow away, which I would assume on badges, is an automatic process. Perhaps the electric arc jammed on due to a failure and melted the scroll?
Cheers,
Alex

[wardog]

Two different strikes that both have flat top crowns. First I take to be the Marsh type - 'Acorns' on top of towers that look to bulge out and parallel sides to towers- second right as viewed outer towers get narrower as they rise and acorns do not bulge. I would also say the text fills out the scroll more than the left one shown. So whats the general opinion on the second type with rectangular braze holes? I still like this type, but is it being said this was a second duff version of this badge? Regards, Paul.

[thursdaychris]

There is one thing that I've noticed with badges that are thought to be wrong 'uns, if there seems to be quite a few of them around, then that is taken as a very bad sign. There are very few badges to be found with braze slots, the one with the hole in, that I've shown at the start of this, is the only one that has been listed on eBay/picclick for months now. I bought the only other one that has appeared and that was over two months ago, as you will see, it is also maker marked.

[Neil s]

The rear strike of the scroll is different difficult because of the angle of photo to comment on the front but I would be surprised if firmin was responsible for letting one out in that state

[thursdaychris]

Oh dear, how about these three then? also marked FIRMIN LONDON, the rear strike of all three, and that of the previous one, all look the same to me, the one with the hole in it, shown in post no 1, is what I guess would be called hollow struck?

[magpie]

Going from the pictures I'd say someone has trued unsuccessfully to repair the badge and blown a hole through the scroll, doubt firmin would give a toss being part of a contract lot, we used to send stuff out on a day trip in one of the delivery lorries on the day so it wasn't there to inspect if it wasn't perfect.

[dumdum]

Hi

A great topic here. I'm going to suggest that that hole could be from the rear braze hole which has burnt through.

The solder around the hole is sure to be lead solder and this stuff is death to badges if not used sparingly. It can easily destroy silver and gold if the article is heated without removing just about every trace of it I'm told.

Even if it is on a brass or copper badge it will make hard soldering a bit of a challenge as the hard solder becomes brittle and makes for a very poor joint. I've been told this by people who know what they are talking about.

I have a silver sweetheart badge that is quite nice, apart form the fact that a stick pin with two pounds of lead solder have been added to the rear. Well, at least the pin won't fall off....

So, excessive heat and maybe a fairly thin base scroll?

[thursdaychris]

I've attached several better pics of the two "Firmin" badges that I have, although there now seems to be some doubt as to their authenticity. The second and third badges shown previously were from mainstream dealers websites.

[wardog]

I think the Firmin slider braze hole badges look very similar from the front to the braze hole badges with lettering showing on rear of scroll, my example of which has worn crowns on the shield. I think it could be possible the crowns are slightly different. Regards, Paul.

[thursdaychris]

Yes, me too, Paul, but regarding the first one of these "Firmin" badges that I acquired, the second one in the pics, another member has said that he would be surprised if Firmin would let a badge out in this state. Now, I must admit that I have had cataract surgery, and I do need glasses for closeup stuff, but to me both of these badges look absolutely fine, what's supposed to be wrong with them?

[Luke H]

I’m not sure whether to laugh or cry reading this thread.