The eagle is facing...

[mike_vee]

I was born skeptical !

No doubt there were variations is style/stitching by different tailors , if there were slight differences in metal crowns it's possible that the eagles were not all identical.

The confusion over which way arm badges should face is understandable but would Senior RAF officers not have been aware of the correct orientaion of their cap badge ?

While I've found two (possibly 3) examples of the badge (both on dealers sites) I cannot find one photograph showing it being worn. There are numerous photos of WW1 Canadian officers (including 'Aces') and all are wearing the "proper" badge.

Is it possible that at some point in time a 'mirrored' photograph was wrongly "assumed" to show the eagle facing the wrong way and is now the basis for these "unique" badges being sold ?

Photo from post #1 'flipped'.

[wasaraftype]

Hi, very interested in this thread. I too have the eagle in question but have not been able to find any evidence of its use.

I have attached images of my 3 period 1918 Eagle cap badges. The rear construction of the 'wrong' facing eagle is markedly different.


Regarding the cap. Is there any maker or service user names? Could help with identifying it to source. I do not collect caps so unable to make any comments on authenticity.


Regards,

Graham

[Badger306]

Here's the old Tommys' listing with the cap maker named.

Vaughn

[RAY WALKLING]

Order promulgated late 1921 states: Quote Badges, arm,embroidered, eagle, supplied in pairs. The correct method of wearing them on jackets and greatcoats is with the eagle flying away from the wearer, i,e., with the eagle's head facing to the right and left on the right and left sides respectively of the wearer.
In cases where this badge has been incorrectly sewn on to garments in wear, the necessary alteration should be made unquote.

Hope this helps.
Ray

[leigh kitchen]

Sorry, which way is "away from the wearer" when worn on the arms?
To the wearers front?

[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by leigh kitchen

Sorry, which way is "away from the wearer" when worn on the arms?
To the wearers front?

Found this earlier :
"The eagles are meant to be worn in pairs, with the both of the eagles facing backward.The Air Ministry Order(s) which authorized the introduction of these badges in 1918 make it absolutely clear that they are to be worn only in this manner. "


.

[leigh kitchen]

I thought they were worn facing to the rear when worn on the sleeves, but post no. 19 appears to be saying to the front?

[Artynut]

Leigh is correct, the wording in Post 19 is confusing, (Is it a direct quote?). “Flying Away” does not denote direction. The wording right and left facing for right and left shoulders respectively is incorrect. Posts 12 and 21 are definitive and correct! ....... With respect ..... D.J.

[wasaraftype]

Hi all,

Just some observations regarding the RAF Cap with the wrong facing eagle badge. If the RAF Cap is genuine(made by Tress & Co) it should be a 1918 first pattern type. Therefore the badge may have also been produced in 1918 before any of the 'Members' quoted regulations came into being.

The badge in question is very well made and if faked, somebody has gone to a lot of time and trouble to design a brass eagle from scratch.

I have not seen this design of brass eagle on cuff badges used by the RNAS or RAF.

Unless someone comes up with an image of the cap & badge being worn together I think the badge's authenticity will remain in question.


Regards,

Graham

[RAY WALKLING]

Can confirm that quotation in Post 19 is an exact quote from the 1921 order. Further to Post 21; (1) An Air Ministry Order did not introduce the original Uniform for the RAF, however at the beginning Air Ministry Orders were Weekly and Monthly. (2) Herewith quote from original introduction Memorandum, "Warrant Officers 2nd Class, N.C.Os. and Men will wear the Bird in red silk on both sleeves near the shoulders where the letters R.F.C. are worn at present by rank and file of the R.F.C.

[leigh kitchen]

So to clarify please - what way is "away", facing towards the front or the rear of the sleeve?

[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by leigh kitchen

So to clarify please - what way is "away", facing towards the front or the rear of the sleeve?

IWM Description :

"The shoulder eagle was adopted in 1918, originally in red on the then-khaki uniform but from 1919 in light blue when the grey-blue uniform was adopted. The red version survived for use on khaki tropical uniform. It was to be worn on both upper sleeves below the seam by all below the rank of W.O. 1st Class. A national title was the only badge permitted to be worn above the eagle. The eagle was worn in facing pairs, the head looking to the rear ."


.

[RAY WALKLING]

My personal opinion is that the drafter of the order in question used of the word "away" to mean "rear". For the record in my 38 years of RAF service I never saw an eagle shoulder badge affixed to a uniform in the flying forwards position.

[leigh kitchen]

Ta - just that the wording in post no. 6 seems to indicate that the birds should face towards the wearers front ".......the eagle flying away from the wearer, i,e., with the eagle's head facing to the right and left on the right and left sides respectively of the wearer".
Ambiguous really I suppose, clumsy wording.

[grumpy]

let me examine just half of the order.

"the eagle facing to the right" coupled with "on the right side of the wearer"

If one is an onlooker in real life, considering the wearers own right arm, the eagle is clearly facing you, in front of the wearer.

If one looks at a photograph, the eagle is >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>over here
and looking rearwards.

The person drafting the order should have been ashamed. The simple words
" backwards as seen by the wearer" would have sufficed.

However, looking backwards is, in my opinion, exactly what the RAF should not have done.