Air Gunner Winged Bullet - Opinions please

[GCR817]

Gentlemen,

I just purchased the following Air Gunners Winged Bullet. It looks good to me, but I would appreciate your opinions. The one illustrated in Warren Carroll's book is in bright brass and has three lugs. My example is a darker finish and has two lugs (which has been squeezed unfortunately).

Thanks in advance,

Geoff

[boots and saddles]

Looks good to me. I imagine the 3 lugged one would have two of them e & w. but with wings that wide I would think that alone with only two lugs would stabilize it.

[Nichollg]

I have been told the the three lug ones are the real ones. But then i have a three lug one and i'm not certain that it is genuine. This one looks pretty good though.

[2747andy]

Originally Posted by GCR817

Gentlemen,

I just purchased the following Air Gunners Winged Bullet. It looks good to me, but I would appreciate your opinions. The one illustrated in Warren Carroll's book is in bright brass and has three lugs. My example is a darker finish and has two lugs (which has been squeezed unfortunately).

Thanks in advance,

Geoff

Geoff,
I think your two lugged badge is Dodo not a Hawk! The detail is poor, look at the "Dots" to the neck of the shell, the feathering along the top edge of the wings, no reverse detail and the lugs look as though they've been crimped to replicate some use! Your badge looks flat and I feel should have more relief... IMO it is a copy! (My example is missing its lower lug, but just look at the quality of the detail on the wings).

Andy

[cga00]

Geoff, I agree with andy.
An old air gunner told me that I should be looking for one with three lugs.

Craig

[SAS1]

I have seen genuine examples with two and three lugs and repro with the same. After all, if the accepted opinion is to have three lugs on a genuine example, its not hard for a manufacturer to add three to a repro one.

The badge you have up appears to have the darker oxidised finish that was used by the RAAF from the 1920s up to 1941 (about a year longer than the RAF).

[dragon166]

I think the one you illustrated is a copy. The original I have in my collection has three lugs and the lower end on the casing is plain not rimmed as per the copies.

[Jibba Jabba]

I agree with dragon.

[SAS1]

As mentioned, the badge is an early WW2 Oxidised RAAF version, not RAF. Pre-war, the RAAF used brass or more usually gilt insignia. At the start of the war this was changed to darkened badges (plastic, oxidised or painted metal buttons and belt buckles, and oxidised or painted metal for badges). To begin with, the gilt/brass ones remaining in stores were returned for refinishing, before 'proper' oxidised or painted versions were made from the start.

The RAAF 'Winged Bullet' can be found in brass, gilt and darkened metal (either oxidised or painted) and in two and three lugged versions. Furthermore, unlike the RAF version, the base of the 'bullet' was rimmed.

The change from gilt/brass to darkened began in the latter half of 1939 (along with the change from gold bullion rank lace to RAF cloth style). The winged bullet was first issued in the RAAF (in brass) in June 1930 at RAAF Laverton when three airmen completed an initial air gunnery course at No. 1 Squadron. By 1942 it had been superseded by the AG half wing, and was finally abolished.

Looking at the colouring, the badge shown at the start of the thread appears to be a brass badge that has been refinished in the oxidised style.

[joxley]

Hey chaps

I've seen a lot on the web about fake air gunner winged bullet badges, the general claim being that 3 lugs = ok, 2 x lugs = a fake. My uncle died recently and amongst his possessions and medals was one such badge. He was in the RAF VR before the war so maybe that's how he came to have it. It has two lugs and a rimmed bullet. Can't possibly be a fake as it's been in a box at my aunties since he came home from Italy at the end of the war. I'm not interested in selliog it, it is in a glass case with his medals now but it is clear that 2 lug types are not fakes and perhaps the 3 luggers have flooded the market at the expense of the real ones?

[SAS1]

Thanks for the post, nice to have it confirmed..