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  #1  
Old 13-12-19, 02:54 AM
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Default NZE

According to Reginald Cox's book Military badges of the British Empire, 1914-1918. - Reference numbers provided.

The Tunnel NZE (2927) wore larger version of the NZE badge (2923) - I've not been able to confirm this. Does anyone have a sample of the Tunnel NZE badge with height x width??

Kind regards,

Drew
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  #2  
Old 13-12-19, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Britbadge View Post
According to Reginald Cox's book Military badges of the British Empire, 1914-1918. - Reference numbers provided.

The Tunnel NZE (2927) wore larger version of the NZE badge (2923) - I've not been able to confirm this. Does anyone have a sample of the Tunnel NZE badge with height x width??

Kind regards,

Drew

Hi Drew ,


Approximately 50mm height for Tunnelers, 40mm for Engineers.


Cheers Iain.
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File Type: jpg nze 20191213_162059 (2).jpg (27.6 KB, 49 views)
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  #3  
Old 20-04-20, 01:28 AM
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Hello,
Do you have any pictures of the back of these badges?
I wonder if they used to be sand-cast or die-struck or maybe flat on the back?
And if they could be made by J.R.Gaunt London and get the Gaunt tab on the back like many NZ badges?
Unfortunately, I've not seen many of them.
Thank you very much.
Regards
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  #4  
Old 20-04-20, 04:57 PM
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For measurements see my previous post here:

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=76477

For photos of the badges showing the reverse see attached:

Only the smaller of the two NZE badges has a JR GAUNT rectangular tab; the larger badge has no makers mark.

I trust this answers your question(s)?

Lovat
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File Type: jpg IMG_1249.jpg (42.9 KB, 20 views)
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  #5  
Old 21-04-20, 05:20 AM
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atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anzac16 View Post
Hello,
Do you have any pictures of the back of these badges?
I wonder if they used to be sand-cast or die-struck or maybe flat on the back?
And if they could be made by J.R.Gaunt London and get the Gaunt tab on the back like many NZ badges?
Unfortunately, I've not seen many of them.
Thank you very much.
Regards
Hi Anzac16,

The smaller NZE cap badge was first issued on the 17th June 1912 and appear to have been supplied by Gilbert Beattie of Christchurch, who was an agent for J R Gaunt.
The regulation size was 1 inch wide by 1 high (38mm), but most of the Gaunt NZE badges that I have measured are closer to 40mm high.
The brass Gaunt NZE badges were all die stamped and are hollow backed, whereas the Gaunt bronze officer NZE badges are solid backed.

During WW1 NZE cap badges were made in New Zealand, they were mostly die struck and are pretty much identical to the brass Gaunt made NZE badges.
Stokes and Sons, Melbourne, Australia also manufactured NZE cap badges during WW1, they were die struck with a solid back and measure closer to 42mm.
The only NZE sand cast version that I have seen, showed signs of a Gaunt tag on the back.

The larger Tunnellers cap badge was issued after they were formed on the 12th September 1915 (Disbanded 24th April 1919).
The tunnellers cap badges measure 48mm high, excluding officer badges, are all die stamped and are hollow backed.
The lugged tunnellers cap badge versions (D type lugs), are found with and without Gaunt tags on the back.
The slider tunnellers cap badge version, have Tiptaft stamped on the slider. It is likely the Tiptaft version is late issue circa mid-1917 to 1918. (Beware I have seen very good copies of this badge, only the weight gives it away)

Over the years I have seen good and bad copies of Tunnellers badges, but as yet I have not seen an honest sand cast version.

Brent
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  #6  
Old 21-04-20, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atillathenunns View Post
Hi Anzac16,

The smaller NZE cap badge was first issued on the 17th June 1912 and appear to have been supplied by Gilbert Beattie of Christchurch, who was an agent for J R Gaunt.
The regulation size was 1 inch wide by 1 high (38mm), but most of the Gaunt NZE badges that I have measured are closer to 40mm high.
The brass Gaunt NZE badges were all die stamped and are hollow backed, whereas the Gaunt bronze officer NZE badges are solid backed.

During WW1 NZE cap badges were made in New Zealand, they were mostly die struck and are pretty much identical to the brass Gaunt made NZE badges.
Stokes and Sons, Melbourne, Australia also manufactured NZE cap badges during WW1, they were die struck with a solid back and measure closer to 42mm.
The only NZE sand cast version that I have seen, showed signs of a Gaunt tag on the back.

The larger Tunnellers cap badge was issued after they were formed on the 12th September 1915 (Disbanded 24th April 1919).
The tunnellers cap badges measure 48mm high, excluding officer badges, are all die stamped and are hollow backed.
The lugged tunnellers cap badge versions (D type lugs), are found with and without Gaunt tags on the back.
The slider tunnellers cap badge version, have Tiptaft stamped on the slider. It is likely the Tiptaft version is late issue circa mid-1917 to 1918. (Beware I have seen very good copies of this badge, only the weight gives it away)

Over the years I have seen good and bad copies of Tunnellers badges, but as yet I have not seen an honest sand cast version.

Brent
Hello,

Thank you very much for all of these informations
I have always doubts about the die-cast badges, because of the poor details they usually show... and the bad quality. I've always heard that details are one of the best way to know if a badge is genuine of not.

So, if I understand correctly, the NZE and Tunnelers cap badges are most commonly die-struck with a hollow back except for those made by Stokes, and the OSD versions whose the back is flat with maker's mark.
NZE and Tunnelers cap badges can be found with or without Gaunt tag.

What about the type of fitment for the NZE brass badges, lugs or slider?
I guess if they were made by Gaunt or identical to the Gaunt manufacture, they should have lugs.

The Tunnelers badge was made with both types : lugs and slider, what does "Tiptaft" mean?
What do you mean with "D type lugs"? are they the most common type of lugs? or the hexagonal type?

Sorry, a lot of questions again
I hope my english will be good enough to be understood. I try to learn the english words used to speak about the badges and their construction, not so easy
Thank you again for your help.

Regards
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  #7  
Old 21-04-20, 01:38 PM
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Anzac16 Anzac16 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milcollectorblue View Post
For measurements see my previous post here:

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=76477

For photos of the badges showing the reverse see attached:

Only the smaller of the two NZE badges has a JR GAUNT rectangular tab; the larger badge has no makers mark.

I trust this answers your question(s)?

Lovat
Thank you very much for the picture. I tryed to answer to both of you with my previous message
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  #8  
Old 22-04-20, 01:20 AM
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Here are a few of mine. Larger NZE with and without makers tab.
I don't currently have a slider version.

Cheers
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20200130_230230.jpg (121.8 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg 20200130_230136.jpg (118.8 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg 20190310_171204.jpg (104.1 KB, 10 views)
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  #9  
Old 22-04-20, 04:57 AM
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atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
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My 3 NZE hat badges
Tunnellers Gaunt obverse.jpg

Note the D lugs on the Guant badges.
Tunnellers Gaunt obverse D lugs.jpg

Officers bronze Gaunt NZE badge.
NZE Gaunt officers obverse.jpg

Unmarked tunnellers badge showing D lugs
Tunnellers unmarked obverse D lugs.jpg

NZE badge made by Wellington badge makers Mayer and Kean, as can be seen it has an "MK over W" stamp at the bottom.
Mayer and Kean reverse.jpg

Tunnelers badge made by J W Tiptaft and Son.
Tunnellers J. W. Tiptaft obverse.jpg
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  #10  
Old 22-04-20, 05:07 AM
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Captain H Watkinson. New Zealand Tunnelling Company, wearing a tunneling Company hat badge and officers tunneling company collar badges.

Tunnellers Captain H Watkinson. New Zealand Tunnelling Company.jpg
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  #11  
Old 22-04-20, 08:28 AM
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Thank you for all your pictures!
So I can understand the different versions you're talking about and I know now what I'm looking for.

I'm so impressed with all your badges...

Ok I see "D lugs", I know "hexagonal lugs" (seen on NZ reinforcement badges) and I see another type with your NZE badge made by Wellington, like a "wire"? they look less complicated than the other ones. I've always thought they were not genuine lugs. I've got a few of badges with them.

How many types of lugs are there for the NZ badges?

Regards.
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