British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > Common Forums > Reproductions, Restrikes, Fakes, Forgeries, and Copies

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 18-02-21, 02:48 PM
hindoostan hindoostan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 37
Default Royal Engineers Officers??

Hi all, just received this badge in a pretty ropey lot of badges. It appears to be an officer's badge, cast?, with a strange GVR cypher. Is it genuine, it looks old but the edges of the badge are rough and the overall finish is poor.
Thanks
John
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20210218_143246.jpg (58.5 KB, 120 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20210218_143256.jpg (36.7 KB, 110 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 18-02-21, 04:17 PM
Frank Kelley's Avatar
Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 7,029
Default

It is so very crudely cast, I would certainly not be happy with it and would seek a replacement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hindoostan View Post
Hi all, just received this badge in a pretty ropey lot of badges. It appears to be an officer's badge, cast?, with a strange GVR cypher. Is it genuine, it looks old but the edges of the badge are rough and the overall finish is poor.
Thanks
John
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 18-02-21, 04:50 PM
leigh kitchen's Avatar
leigh kitchen leigh kitchen is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,988
Default

Could it be a locally made badge?
Looks like theres a manufacturer's mark on one of the tangs?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 18-02-21, 05:11 PM
hindoostan hindoostan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 37
Default

Yes, I had not noticed but it says Lambourne & Co Birmingham. It is an old badge, not artificially aged.
John
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 18-02-21, 05:30 PM
leigh kitchen's Avatar
leigh kitchen leigh kitchen is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,988
Default

If you can post a better shot of the manufacturer's mark you may flush out some views on whether it's a genuine mark (I thought it may a (Lambourne stamp).
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 18-02-21, 06:45 PM
hindoostan hindoostan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 37
Default

Here is the best I can do the makers mark. It looks like it's been there a long time, partially obscured by contact marks.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20210218_183557.jpg (87.0 KB, 88 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20210218_183640.jpg (39.5 KB, 50 views)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 19-02-21, 12:25 AM
cbuehler cbuehler is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,018
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Kelley View Post
It is so very crudely cast, I would certainly not be happy with it and would seek a replacement.
Unfortunately I would agree with this. Whilst many OSD badges are a bit on the crude side, this is excessive. Additionally, I have never seen a blade marked in that manner, let alone by this maker, which I do not believe made these. They are not even properly spaced.

CB
__________________
Bdr. Parker Windle MM, A Btry. 210th (E. Lancs.) RFA WW1 , fr. Burnley
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 19-02-21, 12:37 AM
Luke H's Avatar
Luke H Luke H is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Londoner in exile
Posts: 2,992
Default

The badge conforms to no fake die I know.

Despite not being able to see the mark clearly the other features of it look to me, well scream in fact, as being the hand of Lambourne. Not a betting man I would however wager the mark is correct with an underscored o and matches several other OSDs tangs / blades shown in various threads.

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=77594

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...3&postcount=22

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=23815

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...8&postcount=12

I certainly should not seek a replacement nor would I in any respect be unhappy with it.

An item I would love to have in my collection.

Last edited by Luke H; 19-02-21 at 01:00 AM. Reason: Added links
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 19-02-21, 02:21 AM
cbuehler cbuehler is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,018
Default

Unless that blade is a slider cannibalized from another Lambourne badge, which I think it may be, it makes no sense whatsoever being there.

CB
__________________
Bdr. Parker Windle MM, A Btry. 210th (E. Lancs.) RFA WW1 , fr. Burnley
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 19-02-21, 08:23 AM
hindoostan hindoostan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 37
Default

Hi all.
I have to agree with Luke, the tang with the Lambourne mark is identical to the one on the other side of the badge. If you could handle the badge then you would see the wear on both the badge and tangs is not done by the hand of a forger, it would take a massive effort to get the badge in that condition, there are hundreds of nicks, scratches and bends on the tangs, surely not worth the effort to forge a RE badge.
I am happy the badge is a genuine Lambourne badge, I did not know they made cast badges. The cypher is completely different to a usual RE badge of the period, again all the effort to get all those little piercings on the cypher just right is surely beyond the thoughts of a forger, he would copy a standard RE badge.
John.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 19-02-21, 08:56 AM
Frank Kelley's Avatar
Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 7,029
Default

I have a similar RFC with the same stamp, I was not happy with it at the time and I already had many replacements, but, I have never seen or heard of an single example of these badges with an acceptable provenance.
Whilst I do remain open minded, had I been gazetted with a commission over a hundred years ago and been offered a similar cap badge when being fitted with a SD from a tailor, I certainly would have been more than a little disappointed.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke H View Post
The badge conforms to no fake die I know.

Despite not being able to see the mark clearly the other features of it look to me, well scream in fact, as being the hand of Lambourne. Not a betting man I would however wager the mark is correct with an underscored o and matches several other OSDs tangs / blades shown in various threads.

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=77594

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...3&postcount=22

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=23815

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...8&postcount=12

I certainly should not seek a replacement nor would I in any respect be unhappy with it.

An item I would love to have in my collection.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 19-02-21, 11:22 AM
Luke H's Avatar
Luke H Luke H is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Londoner in exile
Posts: 2,992
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Kelley View Post
I have a similar RFC with the same stamp, I was not happy with it at the time and I already had many replacements, but, I have never seen or heard of an single example of these badges with an acceptable provenance.
Whilst I do remain open minded, had I been gazetted with a commission over a hundred years ago and been offered a similar cap badge when being fitted with a SD from a tailor, I certainly would have been more than a little disappointed.
And that may indeed explain why they are so scarce compared to Lambourne made OR badges. Clearly the rank and file had no such choice in what they were issued, doubtless they too shared the disappointment of Lambourne’s quality but were comparatively powerless to refuse.

I would dearly love to see your RFC please should you still have it. Indeed I even have a orphanage tin for disowned and unwanted Lambourne badges so should you have it and wish to move it on please do let me know.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 19-02-21, 01:54 PM
cbuehler cbuehler is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,018
Default

So is this badge genuine? If so, it is a disgrace. Most Indian cast badges are far better than this.
I too am open to anything as one can never say never, but will need more solid evidence to accept this badge as something actually made by Lambourne.

CB
__________________
Bdr. Parker Windle MM, A Btry. 210th (E. Lancs.) RFA WW1 , fr. Burnley
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 19-02-21, 02:41 PM
magpie's Avatar
magpie magpie is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 1,622
Default

I'd say it is, Badjez(Steve Risby) found something in the archives at Kew or nam stating that officer's should not be buying substandard badges for their uniforms and the practice should be stopped/discouraged, from what I can see in items that I own you can buy a cheap cap with badge for 1 or go somewhere else and pay 19 shillings and 6 pence for just a cap badge.

The prices for officer's kit not Or's

Last edited by magpie; 19-02-21 at 02:54 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 19-02-21, 03:10 PM
grenadierguardsman's Avatar
grenadierguardsman grenadierguardsman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 3,226
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hindoostan View Post
Hi all, just received this badge in a pretty ropey lot of badges. It appears to be an officer's badge, cast?, with a strange GVR cypher. Is it genuine, it looks old but the edges of the badge are rough and the overall finish is poor.
Thanks
John
I think a better pic of the rear could do it a bit more justice.
Andy
__________________
Leave to carry on Sir please.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:29 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.