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  #1  
Old 30-10-11, 05:48 PM
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David Moore David Moore is offline
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Question Welsh guards pagri/valise badge, fact or fiction?

Hello, I am a little confused by this badge. I have spotted it on a couple of web sites in both solid and pierced forms. They all come with lugs and are described as pagri or valise badges. I am not familiar with this pattern; the common forms of the Kc pugri and valise badges both have the crown positioned within the garter. These versions have the crown sitting on top of the garter? this raises several questions, is the badge a less common pattern? Is it a fantasy badge? Or is it for a different purpose,for example a radio pack badge? I would be grateful for any opinions.

Happy hunting Dave Moore

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  #2  
Old 30-10-11, 05:52 PM
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matti467 matti467 is offline
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I was discussing this very point with Dave today. There are certainy badges for many regiments that don't fit the used category or are versions that do not appear in hpotographs of regimental members and this one seems to be one of those.
matti
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  #3  
Old 30-10-11, 05:54 PM
2747andy 2747andy is offline
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It looks very crude to me, I've seen better examples of this particular design but suspect the one shown is not right!

Andy
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  #4  
Old 30-10-11, 05:56 PM
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Another common repro I'm afraid.This subject has been covered before try typing in Welsh Guards Pagri on this site search engine.
Hwyl
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  #5  
Old 30-10-11, 06:07 PM
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Hi Dave heres my version with slider and was used on Pagri head-dress (pith helmet) there is what looks like remains of red felt backing still stuck to rear-though i,ve been told there ought to be some form of bent fixings which would be used to hold this backing in place these are missing on my example if i,ve gotten any of this wrong some-one will be along to correct me, but you can see the slider is quite long, obviously used in tropical postings and I believe a nice genuine badge- hope this helps all the best billy
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File Type: jpg (28) Welsh Guards Shoulder-title).jpg (75.2 KB, 67 views)
File Type: jpg (27) Welsh Guards (Pugaree-badge).jpg (76.8 KB, 68 views)
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  #6  
Old 30-10-11, 06:09 PM
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Billy,
Another copy I'm afraid.
Hwyl
Bantam
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  #7  
Old 30-10-11, 06:12 PM
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drat!! ah well looks the part though!
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  #8  
Old 30-10-11, 08:09 PM
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Thankyou for everyone's advice, I assume then that the pattern shown is a fantasy piece. I will continue to search; IG valise and pugri badges are proving difficult to find. But thanks to the forum I have not wasted money on rubbish.

Thanks again Dave Moore
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  #9  
Old 30-10-11, 08:47 PM
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The "Real Deal"!

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...pictureid=8302

Andy
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  #10  
Old 30-10-11, 08:51 PM
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Here's a real one for comparison.
Hwyl fawr,
41st
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File Type: jpg 025.jpg (60.5 KB, 65 views)
File Type: jpg 028.jpg (51.6 KB, 64 views)
File Type: jpg 030.jpg (59.4 KB, 64 views)
File Type: jpg 033.jpg (56.7 KB, 51 views)
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  #11  
Old 30-10-11, 09:03 PM
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Lovely badges, fantastic quality and construction throughout. Thankyou both for sharing the images. Does anyone know if the hackle's worn by the GG,CG,IG and WG on their solar helmet was the same size as that worn on the respective bearskin cap? I wonder because I have seen two GG hackles for sale, similar construction but of different lengths.

Dave Moore
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  #12  
Old 30-10-11, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Moore View Post
Lovely badges, fantastic quality and construction throughout. Thankyou both for sharing the images. Does anyone know if the hackle's worn by the GG,CG,IG and WG on their solar helmet was the same size as that worn on the respective bearskin cap? I wonder because I have seen two GG hackles for sale, similar construction but of different lengths.

Dave Moore
David,
they would be plumes and not hackles! I cannot comment on other Guards Regiments but I think it was only officers who wore a plume in the solar hat?

Andy
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  #13  
Old 31-10-11, 07:49 PM
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Although I can't find photographic evidence, B.L.Davis in his book; British Army uniforms and insignia of World War two pg 149. lists that the Guards regiments with the exception of the Scots Guards did wear plumes on the foreign service universal helmet. I can only find a picture of a wartime Wolsey helmet of the Scots Guards, which has a pagri badge and pieces of dicing on either side of similar design to that worn on the diced peaked cap. I would be interested to know if anyone else has any more information on this subject. Very attractive heawear.

Happy hunting Dave Moore
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  #14  
Old 31-10-11, 08:12 PM
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Hello David here are a couple of images from a previous thread. Hope these are of interest.
Cheers Tony.
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File Type: jpg ejhxzt76h6aptz6j.jpg (15.6 KB, 53 views)
File Type: jpg ejhxzt76h6aptz6j2.jpg (28.2 KB, 39 views)
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  #15  
Old 31-10-11, 08:39 PM
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Thankyou Tony, fantastic images. What I would like to establish is wether OR's wore plumes? I am sure that many years ago I saw a 1920's/30's recruiting poster showing two Guardsmen wearing Wolsey helmets and plumes walking through a North African street market.

Best wishes Dave Moore
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