British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > British Military Insignia > Royal Navy and Royal Marines

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 29-08-13, 08:06 PM
sailorbear sailorbear is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Millbrook Cornwall
Posts: 916
Default Naval Parachute Wings

Hi all, Can anyone tell me the current uniform policy on the wearing of parachute wings in the Royal Navy?

In my time in the RN (1993 -2001) parachute wings were worn on the left cuff by officers and ratings in No 1 dress, (and a commando knife if qualified on the right cuff and /or marksman's badge and ships divers helmet) but in the last few years I have seen a number of both ratings and officers wearing wings on the right shoulder with a commando knife also on the right cuff on No 1 dress and on the shoulder on mess dress?

The only exception I ever saw in my time was a PO MA who had done a tour with the SAS and re-joined the RN after leaving who wore SAS sabre wings on his shoulder and a submariner (who had served with the SPAG) who was wearing printed blue on white parachute wings on the shoulder of the (then) No 8 action working dress.

So what is the current correct dress regulation and when did it change?

regards

Tony
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-09-13, 10:33 PM
Guzzman's Avatar
Guzzman Guzzman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 886
Default Naval Parachute Wings

Hi Tony

The following quote from DCI(RN) 131/03 (14th November 2003) should answer your question for you:-

Reinstatement of Parachutist Badge for Wear by Qualified RN Officers and Ratings

1. As from December 1991 RN Officers and Ratings who had successfully completed a basic parachute course were no longer eligible to wear the Parachutist Badge. The Hobbs Review of RN Clothing Report (March 1995) recommended that wearing of the badge should be restored for all qualified personnel.

2. The purpose of this DCI is to announce that the wearing of the Parachutist Badge by qualified personnel is reinstated with immediate effect. The badge was formerly worn on the left sleeve but to avoid confusion with flying badges, and to bring the RN in line with the RM and the other two Services, the badge will be worn on the right sleeve. The badge is to be positioned 51mm below the shoulder seam.

Pete
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-09-13, 07:42 AM
sailorbear sailorbear is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Millbrook Cornwall
Posts: 916
Default Naval Parachute Wings

Hi Pete, That's really great, just what I was after, many thanks

Tony
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-09-13, 08:21 PM
fez fez is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: tamworth
Posts: 340
Default

Is this for P coy trained personnel only ????
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-09-13, 08:01 AM
sailorbear sailorbear is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Millbrook Cornwall
Posts: 916
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fez View Post
Is this for P coy trained personnel only ????
That's an interesting point! Certainly in my time in the RN their were plenty of guys who wore parachute wings but had not undergone the horrors of P Coy, in fact the only ones I knew who had were all communicators who had volunteered to serve with 148 Cdo FO Bty and did it along with the AA Cdo course. I knew quite a few guys who were serving or had served with the Subsunk Parachute Assistance Group (SPAG) and they wore parachute wings on mess dress and on No 1s when they were no longer serving with the group and no longer wore the large light bulb on their sleeve.

Not all parachute trained troops do P Coy (the RM Commandos don't!) but I would be interested in what the current policy is and which RN personnel are required to do so?

Tony
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-09-13, 08:14 AM
Alan O's Avatar
Alan O Alan O is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,730
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fez View Post
Is this for P coy trained personnel only ????
P Coy is pre-para selection and is only one way to get on a jumps course. There are a number of other courses that have been judged to have the same rigour and therefore enable a Para cse attendance. These include the Commando Course, the RAF REgt's own in-house selection course and SAS selection.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-09-13, 09:04 AM
sailorbear sailorbear is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Millbrook Cornwall
Posts: 916
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan O View Post
P Coy is pre-para selection and is only one way to get on a jumps course. There are a number of other courses that have been judged to have the same rigour and therefore enable a Para cse attendance. These include the Commando Course, the RAF REgt's own in-house selection course and SAS selection.
RAF Regt & SAS aside, I think it's only Royal Marine Commandos that are exempt P Coy! I cant speak for the current regulations but in the 1980's/90's you would still have to do P coy to be para trained even if you had completed the AACC. The only exceptions I new of were the SPAG who definitely did not do P Coy (and no need to as they are not in an airborne role) but nether the less are fully parachute trained and do wear parachute wings! The only other exception I knew was 63 SAS Signal Sqn who in the 80's did an in-house Q test to get on the parachute course but this changed in the 90's when they started being required to undergo the Q test and then P Coy!

Tony
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-09-13, 10:14 AM
Guzzman's Avatar
Guzzman Guzzman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 886
Default Naval Parachute Wings

I agree with Alan O re who is entitled to attend the course at No 1 Parachute School at Brize Norton in order to qualify for Parachute Wings. Completion of P Company only qualifies you to wear a maroon beret. It is not necessary to complete P Company (despite what the Army like to say!) in order to qualify to attend the Parachute Course.

Incidentally, today there are members of the Parachute Regiment who have passed P Company but who are still waiting to complete their Parachute Course at Brize Norton. This is simply because there is insufficient money to pay for them to undertake parachute training. Since the Paras haven't actually had to parachute into action for years, this is deemed acceptable!

It is also important to say who is NOT entitled to wear Parachute Wings. Having attended a civilian parachute course or having undertaken parachute jumps as part of Service AT (Adventure Training) doesn't entitle anyone to wear a military parachute qualification badge.

In 'the old days' personnel who completed the Parachute Course but were posted to a unit that did not have an airborne/parachute role were only allowed to wear the Light Bulb badge (a parachute without wings). This was the badge that was originally worn by members of SPAG (unfairly I always thought considering what they do!), but I see that they now wear Parachute Wings. In fact it is a long time since I saw anyone wearing the Light Bulb badge at all. I don't know if this is the result of an official decision or not. Anyone got any information re this?

Pete
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-09-13, 11:53 AM
Guzzman's Avatar
Guzzman Guzzman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 886
Default Naval Parachute Wings

Re my previous comments concerning the SPAG badge.

The introduction of this badge was announced on 24th June 1977 in DCI(RN) 378/77. I have enclosed an image of the badge below and its similarity to the Light Bulb badge can be seen. It was introduced for wear by RN ratings of the Subsunk Parachute Assistance Group (SPAG) who had completed the special parachute course. The badge was to be worn on the right cuff of uniform jackets and tunics.

All the recent photos I have seen of SPAG personnel show them wearing CS95 or MTP clothing and with Parachute Wings worn at the shoulder. Presumably they are now therefore entitled to wear Parachute Wings on their other uniforms. If so, do ratings still wear the specialist SPAG qualification badge as well as Parachute Wings? If not, when did they stop wearing the SPAG badge?

Pete
Attached Images
File Type: jpg SPAG badge.jpg (101.8 KB, 8 views)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-09-13, 01:24 PM
sailorbear sailorbear is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Millbrook Cornwall
Posts: 916
Default Naval Parachute Wings

From what I remember from the 90's only personnel actively serving with the SPAG wore the large light bulb badge. The SPAG is a volunteer draft and people only normally serve for 2 years or so, then get drafted back to submarine service. The SPAG (when not leaping out the back of a Hercules into the sea) work as staff at the Submarine Escape Training Tower (SETT) at Fort Blockhouse Gosport (formerly HMS Dolphin) and at the Institute of Naval Medicine at Alverstoke.

When I was a trainee Medical Assistant (2006) I done a 6 week placement at the medical centre at Fort Blockhouse with 3 weeks attached to the medical team at the SETT and at that time the light bulb was still worn on No 1 uniform (not parachute wings) but personnel who had previously served with the SPAG and been drafted elsewhere wore parachute wings! Whether this was officially sanctioned I don't know but it was the normal practice. What the current regulations are I have no idea - hence my original post.

Tony
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-09-13, 05:24 PM
Tommo's Avatar
Tommo Tommo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 357
Default

Just to add to this, although not RN - ATO's serving with Alpha Troop also bypass P-Company and are eligible go on the jumps course due to the nature of their role, all wear wings once completed.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 12:25 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.