RCR cloth shoulder titles

[Wingnut]

I did read the thread already previous to the RCR shoulder titles. If I could ask opinions on the time frame of these? WW2 or post war and UK vs. Canadian made?
Thanks!

[Bill A]

Hi, The top three and bottom title are Second World War pattern. The third and second from the bottom are possibly wartime. The 90 degree° sides are the first pattern titles as adopted in 1940. The same pattern was later made in Canada. Note the "Y" in the top titles and the bottom one. That is one of the differences. NOTE there are repros of the "tail" type around. It is suggested that the "Y" pattern in the bottom title is a sign of repro.
A close up of the embroidery styel and an image of the reverese would be helpful.

[Wingnut]

Here are the rears.

[Wingnut]

Yes I feel dumb.

[Wingnut]

The bottom title is very well made and stitched British style. If it is a repro they are getting really good. Kind of scary. It looks brand new which to me is a giveaway.

[Bill A]

I think they are all okay. The two bias angle titles may be late SWW pattern.

[Darrell]

Hi

Knowing little about cloth titles, I only wanted to say that the "G" in the bottom example is significantly different from all the others as well.

regards
Darrell

[Bill A]

Hi Darrel, Your observations are correct. The "G" appears different and is attributed to different makers. Documentation indicates that the embroidery font for most titles was to be modern Gothic, but the range of types of modern Gothic "G" is huge. Many different patterns exist. It has not been linked to the repro issue.
The method of machine embroidery during the war employed a "punch card" system. The design was coded into a punch card which guided the embroidery needles. Swatches / strips of cloth were fed through the machine and the pattern was stitched according to the design of the punched holes. This has provided us with one method of determining the origin of the titles. Most British embroidery was done the bias (on an angle to the horizontal), while most Canadian embroidery was done on the horizontal. However, this is not a conclusive identifier. LAC files contain examples of titles for units that acquired their titles in Canada, and the unit never served overseas. The documentation indicates the titles were acqired from Canadian sources, yet some of their titles show the same characteristics as overseas manufacture. So, the angle of the embroidery is a guide, but must be taken in context with the procurement.
The RCR were an interesting example in the procurement process. Their first embroidered titles, the ones with the "tails" were acquired in the UK, from UK makers. (Probably Gaunt). The policy for titles evolved over the war, but basically, coloured titles were only authorized for the active army. With the RCR being overseas when their titles were issued, the question of insignia for depot personnel, reinforcements and seconded personnel came to the attention of NDHQ. It was decided that the RCR could obtain their titles through Canadian makers, and this resulted in several procurements of titles made in the Canadian "style".
One mystery remains. The "tail" titles were issued up until at least 1943, and were used as the model for the printed titles when the overseas army adopted printed insignia in late 1942. No record or reason for the switch to the bias pattern has been found.