Need help in getting info on this badge

[slick_mick]

Originally Posted by trueblue

Maybee Mick could consult Neil Smith's booklet of recipients of the Australian Munitions Workers badge he is selling for $18

Or maybe not. I'm not the one chasing the info. I just searched the NAA.

Mick

[mike_vee]

The number is stamped on the initial 'Application for Enrollment as Volunteer' form and is listed as the badge number on the form to be sent back to Australia to complete the 'Index-Record' , an example is shown in attached photos.

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[Jackhr]

Originally Posted by trueblue

Maybee Mick could consult Neil Smith's booklet of recipients of the Australian Munitions Workers badge he is selling for $18

So Gary do you have the book handy and if so what does it say about thee number on the back of the badge ? And how would one try to find out who belonged to this badge?

Thanks

[trueblue]

Don't have the booklet...That's why I asked Mick
Doubt if it has the answer anyway

[Chipper]

Good to know, thanks for the info Mick, I didn't realise

cheers, Tim

Originally Posted by slick_mick

Thats the problem with the NAA links. They tend to time out.

Just search for "Munitions Worker + 3043" and you will find it.

Mick

[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by Jackhr

And how would one try to find out who belonged to this badge?

Thanks

The site I linked to in post #13 has the names/numbers of 5947 Australians , the only problem is that it is in alphabetical order !

If people have found the name (from the National Archives of Australia) it is worth checking the site , as for a few of the listings they have some additional information/documents/photos.

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[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by mike_vee

The site I linked to in post #13 has the names/numbers of 5947 Australians , the only problem is that it is in alphabetical order !

Been doing a bit more digging and discovered if you put the badge number into the search box it will take you to the relevent page !

NB: Some numbers from an old thread do not show any results and also do not show anything on NAA site.

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[trueblue]

The badge registers held byAust National Archives might be for the Munitions Workers Home service badge.....

[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by trueblue

The badge registers held byAust National Archives might be for the Munitions Workers Home service badge.....

I've checked some which have documentary evidence (enrollment/tranfer papers) and they are definitely for Great Britain.

One area I'm not sure about is that almost 1000 Australians were already working in British factories and were "brought under the conditions of the scheme" , so may have already had a "works number".

Plus an additional 200 former AIF soldiers were also recruited in Britian , these were mainly those who were "medically unfit" for the army but still capable of working. Perhaps their documents had their service number rather than their badge number ?

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[Jackhr]

see next post

[Jackhr]

Originally Posted by trueblue

The badge registers held byAust National Archives might be for the Munitions Workers Home service badge.....

IN AUSTRALIA
VOLUNTEERS' BADGES
THE GOVERNMENT SCHEME,
DETAILS OF DISTRIBUTION.
The Government (as briefly announced in "The Miner" the other day)
has decided to issue military badges to four classes of volunteers who are not
actively associated with the Expeditionary Forces abroad. The men who will
be entitled to wear these badges will be classified, as follows: -
1. Volunteers retained for home service.
2. Volunteers found Medically unfit.
3. Volunteers engaged on munitions work.
4. Returned soldiers who have been discharged.
A distinctive, badge will be issued
in connection with each class of volunteers. In regard to the various
classifications it was announced by the de-fence authorities on' Thursday ' (reports "The Age") that class l would include all persons between the ages of 18 and 45 years employed, by the Defence Department who had volunteered for active service abroad, but who had been informed in writing by the department that permission to serve has been with-held owing to their services being required in Australia, together with persons 45 years, of age and over employed by the Defence Department, who had
been informed in writing by the department that permission to serve has
been withheld, owing to. their services
being required in Australia.Class 2 Will embrace all men of military age who have volunteered, since
July 1. 1915, for active service outside Australia, but who have been certified,
by a duly-authorised medical officer to be medically unfit for such service.
The badge will not, however, be issued to men with manifest disease or deformity.
The third class of badge will be is-sued to all persons who have volunteered for active service, but have been informed in writing by the secretary,
munitions committee, that they are debarred from enlisting, and to persons
who have enlisted and who have been discharged prior, to Embarkation in
Australia, their services being required for the manufacture of munitions.Munitions workers who have volunteered for active service and have been found medically unfit are not eligible
for this badge.
The badge for, returned soldiers will be presented to officers, warrant, officers, non-commissioned officers, and men who have returned to Australia
from active service and have been dis-charged, excepting those who have
been sent back for misconduct or suffering from a disease brought about by
their own neglect.It is notified that these badges will
continue to be the property of the Commonwealth, and every precaution has been taken to prevent their use by unauthorised persons. It has been
made an offence under the War Pre-cautions Act to wear or dispose of any
one of the badges without authority.The badges will be issued from the
central administration of the Defence Department, and from district head-
quarters in each State. only on the pro-duction of an official certificate. It has
further been arranged to keep a register of all the badges issued.


So which badge are we talking about Home service or Oversea's service in munitions??

[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by Jackhr

So which badge are we talking about Home service or Oversea's service in munitions??

That article was from 30th May 1916 and relates only to the "Home Service" badges (I never knew there were 4 different ones ) , one sentence was of interest :

It has further been arranged to keep a register of all the badges issued.

So the NAA should have records of each group and the numbers issued.

One Australian dealers site had the following description of the Volunteer Munitions Workers badge :

Issued from 1916, recipients volunteered for active service abroad but were notified in writing that they were debarred from enlisting due to their services being required in munitions manufacture. Only 1700 badges were approved and manufactured

Not sure how accurate that claim is .

These 4 badges are very interesting but as I'm still trying to get my head around the Overseas one I'll leave discussion of these to others .

NB : Descriptions from the Australian War Memorial site :

Volunteer Munitions Worker Badge
Issued from 1916, recipients volunteered for active service abroad but were notified in writing that they were debarred from enlisting due to their services being required in munitions manufacture.

Overseas Munitions Worker Badge
This badge was issued to each successful applicant of the Australian Government sponsored scheme to send skilled workers to the United Kingdom for munitions manufacture. The scheme was instituted in August 1916, centralising and formalising the practice of UK firms privately recruiting Australian skilled labour.

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[mike_vee]

I don't have full access to NAA records (and am not willing to pay for it ! ) or have a copy of Neil Smith's booklet but I have found some documents that 'may' help solve the mystery of why there are 2 different numbers.

At the moment I have checked about 12 records (Have only looked at the "A's" so far) and these show the "Application for Enrollment as Volunteer for Manufacture of Munitions in Great Britain". Some are also for "Navvy/War Workers" who were also employed under the scheme.

Initially only skilled workers were sought , however at the request of the British Government later groups included large numbers of navvies for general labouring.

Each application has a number stamped/written on the top of the first page , in the majority of cases this corresponds to the badge number that was subsequently issued (and is recorded as such later in the documents). I found a couple of cases where the number did not match or had been scored out.

The last page of these documents was basically a "certificate of service" :

A number was often stamped on the reverse and a certificate was provided as authentication.

These 'certificates' not only included the persons name , badge number and service record but also (on top left) a typed number which I assume was the "Index-Record" number.

Conclusions

1. Each "volunteer" had 2 numbers recorded.

2. The first number was their badge number which was allocated when they were enrolled/accepted.

3. The second number was their record number which could only have been allocated when their service was complete.

4. Is it possible that when some badges were researched the numbers were accidently 'swapped' , this would account for the confusion.

5. Where the numbers on the initial form were wrong or crossed out they may have been mistaken recorded/reseached as being the correct number but had actually been assigned to someone else .

NB : This is just my theory based on some basic/quick research but could explain why the same number is recorded for two different people or why the same person appears to have two numbers.

Discuss !

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[Jackhr]

Well done Mike that does explain a few things have to dig further .

Rob

[mike_vee]

HOW MUCH !!!!

There is an AMW badge on eBay at the moment for £329.00 + £10.99 postage !

What makes the listing even more ridiculous is the fact that both lugs are missing.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/373425966...frSSE#shpCntId


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