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  #1  
Old 24-03-24, 02:51 PM
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Default Unusual Rifle Brigade

Winding if any members seen or heard of the existence of a Rifle Brigade badge like this and potentially have some information?

It has the scroll and honour configuration of the earlier Edwardian badges but is closer in size to the smaller more and much common later KK705 with all the battle honours scrolls.

Don’t have my large or standard versions to hand so I’ve pictured it next to the fsc for scale. Dimensions are W: 38mm, H:46mm.
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  #2  
Old 24-03-24, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke H View Post
Winding if any members seen or heard of the existence of a Rifle Brigade badge like this and potentially have some information?

It has the scroll and honour configuration of the earlier Edwardian badges but is closer in size to the smaller more and much common later KK705 with all the battle honours scrolls.

Don’t have my large or standard versions to hand so I’ve pictured it next to the fsc for scale. Dimensions are W: 38mm, H:46mm.
A shame Ry (Charlie585) is not currently active. I'm sure he'd nail it in a heartbeat.

JT
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  #3  
Old 24-03-24, 06:56 PM
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I have the same badge on a long slider. It is the one worn on Brodricks.

The slider is often cut short.

Dealers often sell them as 'pagri' badges due to long slider but I have never seen a photo of one on a FSH.

I think they were replaced in 1910 by the standard one. My assumption is the sliders were cut short for wear on the khaki cap from 1906-10.

Last edited by Alan O; 24-03-24 at 07:02 PM.
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  #4  
Old 24-03-24, 07:13 PM
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Agree with Alan definitely looks like the one worn on the Brodrick with the long slider , not one I’ve seen with loops , nice ?


Gerard
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  #5  
Old 24-03-24, 07:23 PM
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Sorry gents unless I’m missing something or perhaps my first post wasn’t clear the large Edwardian (W: 42mm H: 52mm) badge below is bigger than the one above.

My badge measures W: 38mm H: 46mm.

As you can see it’s bigger than the fsc.

My badge is about the size of the standard 1905* cap badge worn in WW1.
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Last edited by Luke H; 27-03-24 at 08:49 AM. Reason: Corrected date*
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  #6  
Old 24-03-24, 07:58 PM
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The badge in post #1 stood next to the ‘normal’ large Edwardian badge for the Brodrick cap.
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  #7  
Old 24-03-24, 08:08 PM
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So headgear in order:

C 1898 FSC small badge QVC lugs
1902 FSC small badge KC lugs.
1903 Brodrick k/c 4 honours on wreath with a slider.
1906 peaked cap as above.
1910 peaked cap 14 honours on wreath k/c
1936 peaked cap k/c Prince Consorts own
1939 side cap as above
c 1943 GS cap as above
1944 Plastic badge as an alternative.
c 1947 beret as above and returns to metal
c 1956-8 beret no honours Guelpheric crown

Not sure where a smaller lugged badge with 4 honours fits in with this?
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  #8  
Old 25-03-24, 01:46 PM
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Like yours but I don`t have a clue what it was worn on,Perhaps a buckle? regards Gary
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  #9  
Old 26-03-24, 09:57 AM
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Default Unusual Rifle Brigade

With that amount of missing loops I wonder whether it's a pouch badge?

Rob
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  #10  
Old 26-03-24, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonofacqms View Post
With that amount of missing loops I wonder whether it's a pouch badge?

Rob
Not a pouch badge that I know of. All follow a similar pattern with the ribbon tails protruding.
I'll post an image later
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  #11  
Old 26-03-24, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [I
[/I]Alan O;621534]So headgear in order:

C 1898 FSC small badge QVC lugs
1902 FSC small badge KC lugs.
1903 Brodrick k/c 4 honours on wreath with a slider.
1906 peaked cap as above.
1910 peaked cap 14 honours on wreath k/c
1936 peaked cap k/c Prince Consorts own
1939 side cap as above
c 1943 GS cap as above
1944 Plastic badge as an alternative.
c 1947 beret as above and returns to metal
c 1956-8 beret no honours Guelpheric crown

Not sure where a smaller lugged badge with 4 honours fits in with this?
Isn’t it the 1906 peaked forage cap badge? The officers badge often had blades but the battalion headquarters staff sergeants (RSM, Bandmaster, RQMS, Musketry Sergeant, etc.**) also had a similar badge, but with loops and cotter pin. The same badge was worn with the officers 1902 drab khaki SD cap initially (as per images).

** they had previously worn the pillbox cap.
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Last edited by Toby Purcell; 26-03-24 at 05:31 PM.
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  #12  
Old 26-03-24, 08:29 PM
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There is also a 20 honour pattern similar to the WW1 pattern. It exists for Officers at least.
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  #13  
Old 27-03-24, 09:28 AM
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Default Rifle Brigade Sealed Patterns

The running order of RB badges 1894-1927 according to Julian’s research:

Sealed Patterns:

2325/1887 - glengarry, bronzed (KK588 / Gaylor, row B, [ii])
2325A/1898 - renewal of above SP for FSH, bronzed (ditto above)
4091/1894 - FD service cap, WM (KK703 / Gaylor, row B, [iii])
4091B/1902 - as above but KC, WM (KK704)
4091C/1904 - as above made 2 inches high, WM (Gaylor plate, row C, [i])
4091D/1905 - Forage cap, additional honours, made smaller, WM (KK705 / Gaylor plate, row C, [ii])
10192/1927 - change of pattern, Prince Consorts Own, WM (KK2019 / Gaylor plate, row C, [iii])

So unless J missed something, which I very highly doubt, there was no 1906 pattern.
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  #14  
Old 27-03-24, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke H View Post
The running order of RB badges 1894-1927 according to Julian’s research:

Sealed Patterns:

2325/1887 - glengarry, bronzed (KK588 / Gaylor, row B, [ii])
2325A/1898 - renewal of above SP for FSH, bronzed (ditto above)
4091/1894 - FD service cap, WM (KK703 / Gaylor, row B, [iii])
4091B/1902 - as above but KC, WM (KK704)
4091C/1904 - as above made 2 inches high, WM (Gaylor plate, row C, [i])
4091D/1905 - Forage cap, additional honours, made smaller, WM (KK705 / Gaylor plate, row C, [ii])
10192/1927 - change of pattern, Prince Consorts Own, WM (KK2019 / Gaylor plate, row C, [iii])

So unless J missed something, which I very highly doubt, there was no 1906 pattern.
It’s the issue of the cap that I’m referring to. The dark [rifle] green peaked forage cap for officers and battalion HQ first class staff (who dressed differently to the companies) 1902, with rank and file getting there’s between 1905 and 1906 (phased issue across the army). And the officers SD cap 1902. I believe your Edward VII badge relates to those two forms of headdress.

Last edited by Toby Purcell; 27-03-24 at 09:55 AM.
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  #15  
Old 27-03-24, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke H View Post
The running order of RB badges 1894-1927 according to Julian’s research:

Sealed Patterns:

2325/1887 - glengarry, bronzed (KK588 / Gaylor, row B, [ii])
2325A/1898 - renewal of above SP for FSH, bronzed (ditto above)
4091/1894 - FD service cap, WM (KK703 / Gaylor, row B, [iii])
4091B/1902 - as above but KC, WM (KK704)
4091C/1904 - as above made 2 inches high, WM (Gaylor plate, row C, [i])
4091D/1905 - Forage cap, additional honours, made smaller, WM (KK705 / Gaylor plate, row C, [ii])
10192/1927 - change of pattern, Prince Consorts Own, WM (KK2019 / Gaylor plate, row C, [iii])

So unless J missed something, which I very highly doubt, there was no 1906 pattern.
Many thanks. I had typo'd the Consorts one with a 36 rather than 27.

Dating exact is tricky as you have the authority for the s/p for the badges which may or may not match up with the year that the hat changed and even then there may have been crossover not only with obsolete badges being worn on 'new' hats but also a supply issue between battalions especially when they are overseas. Add different ranks, militia, VB battalions into the mix and it does make dating a change impossible to narrow to a single year.
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