H.M.Patrol Vessel Tally

[sailorbear]

Hi all, can anyone tell me who would have worn the cap tally pictured below and in what time period?

Cheers

Tony

[Nozzer]

Worn by junior ratings of the Royal Naval Patrol Service in WW2.

Interestingly in the picture below, only the Stoker in the back row on the left is wearing one. All the other Junior Rates appear to be wearing "H.M.S."

It is easier to make out in the actual photo (using a magnifying glass!!!)

Andy

[sailorbear]

Originally Posted by andyh

Worn by junior ratings of the Royal Naval Patrol Service in WW2.

Interestingly in the picture below, only the Stoker in the back row on the left is wearing one. All the other Junior Rates appear to be wearing "H.M.S."

It is easier to make out in the actual photo (using a magnifying glass!!!)

Andy

Cheers Andy, I have seen/read a lot on the RNPS but the only tally I have seen in pictures is the "HMS" one, I'm assuming that it must have been a early war issue? the only other tallies I have seen are HM MINESWEEPERS worn by RNR trawler section ratings in WW1 and a later HM MINESWEEPER tally of an undetermined date.

regards

tony

[Nozzer]

I have said it before, but if you are ever in the Lowestoft area, the RNPS museum at "Sparrows Nest" or H.M.S. EUROPA is well worth a visit.

Check the opening times though

Andy

[Nozzer]

Tony,

I can't give exact dates, sorry. I have a great uncle who served in the RNPS and the only picture I have seen of his, he is wearing "H.M.S".

I would guess your tally is early war. After the end of WW2 there was an AO that tallies where to be issued with ships names. I had the AO's, but I have lost them, so this is taken from memory, if I am wrong please correct me.

This issue didn't happen for a few years, but ratings could purchase tallies from private sources, i.e. tailors. This accounts for the variety of tallies from the period, most noticeble, the absence of the full stop after the ships name and an extra "foot" on the leg of the letter "R". It wasn't until the mid 1950's (I am unsure of the exact date) that tallies began to be issued from official sources and for a brief period, they again had the full stop after the ships name.

You can date a tally by the weave of the lettering and the material of the ribbon. Cap tallies are as complex as cap badges and of course there are fakes.

Hope this helps a little

Andy

[mannimal]

Originally Posted by sailorbear

Cheers Andy, I have seen/read a lot on the RNPS but the only tally I have seen in pictures is the "HMS" one, I'm assuming that it must have been a early war issue? the only other tallies I have seen are HM MINESWEEPERS worn by RNR trawler section ratings in WW1 and a later HM MINESWEEPER tally of an undetermined date.

regards

tony

I thought the WW1 Trawler crews wore the 'MINESWEEPER' tally and the 'MINESWEEPERS' came later?

[Nozzer]

Originally Posted by mannimal

I thought the WW1 Trawler crews wore the 'MINESWEEPER' tally and the 'MINESWEEPERS' came later?

I have a H.M. MINESWEEPERS. tally that is I believe is the latter.

Interestingly I also have a H.M. SUBMARINE (note the absence of the "S") that comes from the period after WW2 when tallies where not issued from official sources.

Below are three tallies, two that I mention above plus a pre WW2 H.M.SUBMARINES. Notice the "R" with the extra "foot" I mentioned on SUBMARINE

[sailorbear]

Originally Posted by andyh

I have a H.M. MINESWEEPERS. tally that is I believe is the latter.

Interestingly I also have a H.M. SUBMARINE (note the absence of the "S") that comes from the period after WW2 when tallies where not issued from official sources.

Below are three tallies, two that I mention above plus a pre WW2 H.M.SUBMARINES. Notice the "R" with the extra "foot" I mentioned on SUBMARINE

Hi Andy., thats interesting but also confusing as I have a copy of a photo of a WW1 RNR trawler rating with a cap tally that definately says HM MINESWEEPERS! the other picture I have I dont know the timeframe of but that one says HM MINESWEEPER!

Regards Tony

[Nozzer]

Any chance that you could upload those pictures? There may be a clue in the style of uniform being worn, especially the caps.

[sailorbear]

Originally Posted by andyh

Any chance that you could upload those pictures? There may be a clue in the style of uniform being worn, especially the caps.

There maybe, however having looked again (with a big magnifying glass) it would seem that I was Wrong! The RNR (T) rating IS wearing HM MINESWEEPER!

Regards Tony

[Shoto]

Hi All,
My Father kept his 'HM Patrol Vessels' cap tally in the box with his war medals and memrobelia from Royal Navy Volunteer Service in WW2.

I have his original service record and also results of a Royal Navy search of 'Pay and Victuals' archives. They all show Dad served on Fleet Minesweepers ie HMS Fancy (Algerine Class).
There is one mystery entry covering most of 1944 of 'HMS Lynx' that was Vice Admiral - Dover Command. No ships are listed against this entry but we know he saw bodies on the Normandy beaches around D-Day so was on a ship there.
He was by then a Leading Radio Mechanic trained on Radio and Radar.

Coastal command at Dover was 'HMS Wasp'.

Trying to understand if ratings on Fleet Minewsweepers wore this cap tally as the 15th MSF were based at Dover for D-Day then?

Any thoughts gratefully received.

Best regards,

Steve

[RN Buttons]

I have a photo of my Father on the dock in Stravanger, Norway on the last day of WW2. He is wearing an HMS cap tally.
His minesweeper MMS 74 and two others had just swept the area and had several German ships surrender to them that day.