British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > Common Forums > It's a Mystery -Unknown Insignia for Identification

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-06-15, 07:37 AM
Cofty Cofty is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3
Default Vintage Light Infantry Badge?

Hi, I am hoping somebody might be able to help ID this badge for me.

I found it while metal detecting in North Northumberland. I came across one image of a very similar badge that was found in America.

So far all I have been able to discover through an image search is that the bugle normally belongs to a light infantry regiment. This one appears to be much simpler than the ones I can find online which makes me wonder if it is quite early.

Any help with identifying the regiment and age would be much appreciated.

Many thanks.



Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-06-15, 03:50 PM
Just Just is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,532
Default

Hello
when I see the lugs, probably ammo (cartridges) leather box badge ??
cordially
Didier
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-06-15, 07:33 PM
Jeff Mc William's Avatar
Jeff Mc William Jeff Mc William is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wakefield West Yorks
Posts: 1,061
Default

Hi Cofty
Congratulations on a very interesting "find".
I tend to agree with Didier on this one, ie that it is a Lt.Inf cartridge box badge, and yes, it has a definite 18th Centy "look" about it. Is it brass ? Regards Jeff
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-06-15, 10:03 PM
Cofty Cofty is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3
Default

Thanks to you both.

That is really useful, I was wondering why it had 3 tags and thought it looked a bit big for a cap badge.

I think it is brass or some similar copper alloy. It came out the ground in very good condition with a nice greenish patina.

Is there any way to ID a specific regiment or would it be generic to Light Infantry?

The field I found it in has also given up lots of 18th Century coins and artefacts. I found it just a few yards from my house so it's nice to add a little bit to local history.

I'm surprised to hear that guns in that period had cartridges. I must do some research. I have found lots of lead musket balls in the same area.

Many thanks for the information. Bill
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-06-15, 08:34 AM
REMEVMBEA1 REMEVMBEA1 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Stoke on Trent
Posts: 944
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cofty View Post
Thanks to you both.

That is really useful, I was wondering why it had 3 tags and thought it looked a bit big for a cap badge.

I think it is brass or some similar copper alloy. It came out the ground in very good condition with a nice greenish patina.

Is there any way to ID a specific regiment or would it be generic to Light Infantry?

The field I found it in has also given up lots of 18th Century coins and artefacts. I found it just a few yards from my house so it's nice to add a little bit to local history.

I'm surprised to hear that guns in that period had cartridges. I must do some research. I have found lots of lead musket balls in the same area.

Many thanks for the information. Bill

Just wondering , would the light companies of all regiments have had a bugle horn somewhere in their dress.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-06-15, 10:53 AM
Cribyn's Avatar
Cribyn Cribyn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Carmarthenshire, Wales
Posts: 1,718
Default

Hello Crofty

'Cartridge' in this context does not mean the modern metallic cased round of ammunition but a paper wrapped musket ball and measured charge of gunpowder.

In essence the cartridge was ripped open and the powder poured down the barrel, followed by the musket ball and the paper was forced home and used as wadding to keep the powder and ball in place (probably an overly-simplified explanation!).

The thick paper used was called cartridge paper, a term which still exists for a particular grade of paper today.

Regards
Roger
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-06-15, 12:24 PM
davidwyke's Avatar
davidwyke davidwyke is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 1,478
Default

Hi Cofty

Certainly an interesting find but, personally, I think it would be virtually impossible to ID a particular regiment from the badge itself. It could be a Light Infantry Regt or, as mentioned above, the Light Company of any other infantry regt. It could also be from a Militia Regt or early Volunteers.

You would probably have more luck trying to find out what military units were active in the area around the correct time period. It sounds like the field may have been used for shooting practice or as a camp site.

David

PS.... it's most likely Light Infantry but could it also relate to Rifles??

Last edited by davidwyke; 02-06-15 at 12:28 PM. Reason: additional info
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-06-15, 02:09 PM
mule-73k's Avatar
mule-73k mule-73k is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Dublin
Posts: 724
Default

Looking at the measurement of the badge 6"x5" could it not more likely be off a helmet plate? Those proportions remind me of something off the likes of a Bell Top Shako.

Perhaps looking at the location the Durham's might be a contender?

Dave
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-06-15, 02:47 PM
davidwyke's Avatar
davidwyke davidwyke is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 1,478
Default

Hi Dave

Not sure about DLI. The 68th Foot were equipped and trained as LI in 1808 and left for Europe the following year. They were hardly ever in England over the next 50+ years, only c. 1844-1846 and they could have been stationed anywhere. (They were stationed in Scotland & Ireland during that period but not England as far as I know).

David
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-06-15, 02:47 PM
Neibelungen Neibelungen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 239
Default

It's most probably a bugle badge for the 1812 pattern caps (commonly called a belgic shako, though incorrectly).
In 1813 a GO was issued ordering light infantry and light company units to use brass bugle plates in place of the universal plate recently introduced.

A number of identical badges to these have been discovered in Canada, France, Belgium and the Pyrenees dating to around this period.

Although it shares similarity in fixtures to early cartridge box plates, these had been long discontinued in use on them by this date , apart from the RA and Foot Guards, who still retained them.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-06-15, 04:43 PM
Cofty Cofty is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3
Default

Thanks everybody, lots of good information there.

Sorry about the confusion but the measurements in the photographs are in centimeters. It's 60mm high and 52 mm wide (approx. 2 1/2 inches x 2 inches)

I came across the picture below when following internet leads this morning. It is similar in style. I see the regiment number is a separate badge below the bugle. The picture was titled "33rd Belgic".

Excuse my ignorance but what is the difference between the Light Infantry and The Rifles?

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-06-15, 05:06 PM
davidwyke's Avatar
davidwyke davidwyke is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 1,478
Default

Hi Cofty

If you mean the badge, the reason I suggested Rifles as a possibility is that many Rifle units (regular and volunteers) also traditionally used the strung bugle horn device.

David

Last edited by davidwyke; 02-06-15 at 07:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-06-15, 12:15 PM
Neibelungen Neibelungen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 239
Default

The two rifles regiments (60th and 95th) were multi-battalion troops more intensively trained to operate in individual company groups in light infantry/skirmish roles. Though many of the light infantry regiments were employed in this way at times, they tended to operate more as a formed whole battalion on the battlefield role and were employed more as forward advanced units on the march.

The main difference was the 95th and 60th were issued with the Baker Rifle rather than a smooth bore musket, though records show some were also issued to companies in some of the light regiments too.

The 95th fielded up to 3 battalions in later campaigns where most regiments only fielded a single battalion, with the second as a home depot/training unit. Though 2nd battalions were often employed in the field, often when a 3rd battalion was raised to remain at home as depot unit.
2 or 3 weak battalions would often be fielded as a single composite battalion on some campaigns at times.

The Rifles were still employed as an organised battalion on occasion and utilised the same drill and formation as regular units, but were more commonly broken down into detatched companies than other units would be, especially where difficult terrain would prevent more cohesive deployment and use of regular formations.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bugle, light infantry

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:55 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.