US badge- help please

[Peter Brydon]

I have been told that this is a genuine American badge and it has also been suggested that it is WW1 and made in UK.

Any thoughts or verification much appreciated.

Thanks

Peter
( not a badge that i would be keeping )

[54Bty]

I think that 13 stars and bars was originally produced in 1777, so possibly and Infantry badge from then untill the 1790s.

Marc

[Peter Brydon]

Thanks Marc,

Peter.

Any ideas anyone where I could get confirmation.

P.

[54Bty]

Originally Posted by Peter Brydon

Thanks
Any ideas anyone where I could get confirmation.
P.

I have nicked you pic and sent it to a mate in the States.

Marc

[Milmed]

I have been looking to see what I can find but not much so far.

The crossed rifles are Infantry. The shield was typically Adjutant Corps.
Have not seen the two put together like this before.

This is an officers collar badge. Enlisted ranks all wore discs on the collars.
The bronze colour is typical of WWI. C1920's insignia reverted back to gilt or brass.

The lugs are not typical of an American made badge. Period pieces would normally have a safety pin and catch. The lugs could well indicate a British manufactured badge.

That's all the observations I could make. If I find out anything more I will add it here.

Steven

[Peter Brydon]

Many thanks Marc and Stephen.

Regards

Peter

[Home Guard]

Not one I recognize, but can say that the 13 stars has no relation to the date. Badges today that have the shied still show only 13 stars, for the 13 original colonies. I have only seen lugs like that on American badges that were made in the UK, and generally from WW2. I have checked all of my books and do not find it.

My thoughts are: A WW1 badge of some type or a cadet badge for a military school.

Sorry I can't be more help.

Terry

[Peter Brydon]

Many thanks Terry,

It would seem that the badge is genuine, the latest comments I have had is that it could be late 1800’s to early 1900’s, possibly WW1 and possibly Adjutant Generals Staff.

Thanks for you input.

Regards

Peter

[yorkstone]

Peter
Just checked with a mate in Kentucky badge is

Infantry, Adjutant. If small insignia is for collar. If large it is for a Service Cap. In use 1875-1921.

Nice badge I have quite a lot of us items ww1 previous and ww2 but not one I have seen before either

Best wishes pall

Stephen

[Milmed]

Ties into what I speculated previously.

As said previously, bronze badges adopted c.1905 so this one must be post that.
I also read that the Infantry musket badges were replaced with rifles c.1908 but as this could be aa British manufactured badge, it is possible that the manufacturer got it wrong.

My money would be on a WWI period badge

[mike_vee]

Found a badge described as : WWI 4TH INFANTRY ADJUTANT OFFICER COLLAR INSIGNIA

A completely different design.

https://bbmilitaria.com/product/b136...llar-insignia/


.

[Peter Brydon]

Many thanks for all the latest comments.

Regards
Peter

[cbuehler]

This badge is a bit of a mystery. It is clearly British made as no US maker used lugs. It similar to an Infantry adjutant officer collar badge, but too large and of different style. As a long time collector of early US insignia, I have never seen this before.

CB

[Peter Brydon]

Thanks CB,

Peter

[YeoHelmetGuy]

Hello Peter.

Yet another belated response to one of your posts, but one I think I can shed some light on.

Your badge is indeed a United States Army badge, not a regulation pattern insignia but as one of the other commentors pointed out a most likely British produced badge as an expediency measure and I would suggest of World War One vintage.

To understand the insignia one most first understand the make of a U. S. Army battalion, regimental and brigade staff circa 1902-1920 as they were significantly smaller and less specialized as we see in later staff organizations of the U.S. Army at those same levels going forward and also understand that in 1903 the Adjutant Generals Corps, which the shield on your insignia represents only consisted of 28 officers (1 Major General, 1 Brigadier General, 5 Colonels, 7 Lieutenant Colonels, and 15 Majors). A modern Army Division (G-Staff) Brigade and Battalion (S-staff), the G-1/S-1 personnel, G-2/S-2 intelligence, G-3/S-3 operations, and G-4/S-4 Supply or Logistics. All of the principal officers occupying these staff positions except for the S-2 who is a branched Intelligence Corps officer are of the same branch/arm of service (i.e., infantry, artillery, armor, aviation etc.) as the type of Battalion/Brigade they are assigned to. The G staff at divisional level is slightly different as they have more mission specific branched officers. At the battalion level staff principals are generally First Lieutenants or Captains with the exception of the operations officer who is typically a Major. At the brigade level these officers are typically one rank higher being Captains or Majors and the operations officer a Lieutenant Colonel and then at the G-staff level again one rank higher.

So, back to your badge. The staffs of Army battalions, regiments and brigade were considerably smaller and less specialized. These staffs typically consisted of the battalion/regiment/brigade commander, the second-in-commander, the adjutant and the quartermaster and approximately 4 to 6 Sergeants those being the Sargent Major, Quartermaster Sargent, Commissariat Sargent, and Hospital Steward. The officers were of the same army of service as the unit they served in. In particular there needed to be a means to distinguish the infantry or artillery, or cavalry etc. officer serving as the unit's adjutant, so the Adjutant General Corps shield was added to the primary branch service insignia, as an example infantry crossed rifles with the Adjutant General Corps shield added below the crossed rifles and the regimental number above the crossed rifles. The same above/below arrangement would have been applicable to the cavalry’s crossed sabers and the artillery’s crossed cannon. At the time frame, approximately circa 1898 into the early 1920, but more likely 1914-1918 that your insignia represents, the rank of the adjutant and quartermaster at battalion/regiment/brigade level was First Lieutenant.

I hope this simplified explanation sheds some light!

David
(Major, Aviation, United States Army)

Originally Posted by Peter Brydon

I have been told that this is a genuine American badge and it has also been suggested that it is WW1 and made in UK.

Any thoughts or verification much appreciated.

Thanks

Peter
( not a badge that i would be keeping )