Old Naval badge found detecting

[Pter141]

Hi I thought you would like to see a find I made today with
A naval theme to it I think it may be a cap badge.I don't think
That it is royal navy perhaps merchant however the crown on it may contradict that.As you will see it has a blue enamel type coating which I have never seen on any badges I have found before . Perhaps someone on the forum could throw in more ligh on the origin of the badge :

[Bill A]

Hello Pter141, welcome to the Forum. Your account is active and open for posts.

[gb64]

Originally Posted by Pter141

Hi I thought you would like to see a find I made today with
A naval theme to it I think it may be a cap badge.I don't think
That it is royal navy perhaps merchant however the crown on it may contradict that.As you will see it has a blue enamel type coating which I have never seen on any badges I have found before . Perhaps someone on the forum could throw in more ligh on the origin of the badge :

Hello Pter141
Welcome to the forum, looks to be a standard Royal Navy Petty Officer’s cap/ beret badge with the Kings crown so pre 1952 , think the blue and red is just the result of being in the ground for a long time , Royal Navy badges/insignia isn’t my real area of collecting so hopefully someone with more knowledge will confirm.

Gerard

[manchesters]

Typo above should say pre 1952.

They were pained that blue colour sometimes, I dont know why though.

regards

[gb64]

Originally Posted by manchesters

Typo above should say pre 1952.

They were pained that blue colour sometimes, I dont know why though.

regards

Yep typo,meant pre 1952 and I didn’t know about the blue enamelling/paint, thanks Simon, every days a school day !!

O

[Nozzer]

Worn in the Naval Sun Helmet by ratings not dressed as seaman (Class III Ratings) and introduced in 1939.

[Alex Rice]

I believe the example here would have been one of the bi-metal ones and is missing the white metal anchor overlay. The small hole at the top of the anchor looks like where the pin would have gone through to secure it.
Cheers,
Alex

[Nozzer]

Possibly Alex, but I think the hole could just be corrosion and I can see no evidence of the other hole at the bottom of the anchor for the overlay.

Any chance of a picture of the reverse so we can see if there are two holes please?

[Alex Rice]

Sorry, I can't access my example at the moment.
Cheers,
Alex

[Nozzer]

Originally Posted by Alex Rice

Sorry, I can't access my example at the moment.
Cheers,
Alex

Sorry Alex, I meant a picture of the one in the opening post.

[Guzzman]

This is an example of the sun helmet badge worn by ratings. Petty Officers badges were painted red and those worn by junior ratings were painted blue. They were introduced in 1902 and remained in use until 1920. In that year the badge for Petty Officers was replaced by the Class 1 metal sun helmet badge which had a similar design but with a 'gold' crown and outer ring and a silver anchor. Junior ratings did not adopt another badge for the sun helmet but simply wore it with a tally tied around it.

Pete

[Nozzer]

Originally Posted by Nozzer

Worn in the Naval Sun Helmet by ratings not dressed as seaman (Class III Ratings) and introduced in 1939.

AFO 1266/39 of May 1939 (pattern 55)

Source "Royal Navy Uniforms 1930-1945" by Martin J Brayley

[Guzzman]

Hi Nozzer

You are correct! I forgot that the badge was re-introduced for wear in 1939 by Class III ratings. But the information I gave was also correct.

Pete

[Nozzer]

Originally Posted by Guzzman

Hi Nozzer

You are correct! I forgot that the badge was re-introduced for wear in 1939 by Class III ratings. But the information I gave was also correct.

Pete

Hi Pete,

I wasn't trying to correct you in any way, I was just adding the information for completeness of my previous post.

All the best,

Andrew

[Pter141]

Thanks very much for all your input your knowledge of this badge is amazing and really brings the find alive for me I cannot wait to share the information with the farmer ,it was found in West Lothian scotland next to a pathway across a field that I had tracked down on old maps where I have found a number of coins relating to the the late Victorian period the best of which was a gold half sovereign,who knows maybe it was lost by the sailor.
In relation to the fixing there was the remains of a clip attached to the back just below the crown which came away revealing base metal ,looking at the pictures it was in fact a clip to attach