British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > Canadian Military Insignia > Air Force (RCAF and CAF)

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-12-15, 08:16 PM
zorgon's Avatar
zorgon zorgon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 218
Default Another RCAF replica wing pattern

RCAF Aircrew wings, Prototypes, Rarities and Mysteries
Article 4, Post war Prototype remakes circa 1980

Since the 80’s and perhaps earlier, one has been able to find a specific and unique style of wing which represented prototype designs of the 40’s. Based on the design, stitching and materials, it is clear that these were all manufactured by the same maker but the question is who, where and when? The patterns were seen is designs which incorporated both single and double wing styles (Fig. 1) and specifically represented known prototype designs identified by authors sometime after 1973 (Thompson, 1973), (Carroll, 1981)
When given a new wing, collectors tend to look at it in detail, heft it for the “feel”, and almost immediately want to see the reverse which holds a wealth of information about who (country, commercial or one-off tailor made), when and how (hand stitched or machine made) it was manufactured. This in turn gives one information about the Country of origin and date of manufacture as well.
This group of wings showing two sizes of the stylized Air Gunner (discussed in a previous article), pilot, NW, NB, BA, and AE and is thought to be the complete selection of those made in this style. The group was initially purchased in Toronto around 1981.
More recently one Toronto retail store has been selling these at Ontario Militaria shows and they occasionally make their way onto eBay. It is my understanding the retailer bought these many decades ago from another company that was going out of business.
The black stitching which is added to highlight the feathers in the wings, the course thread in the wings and what appears to be a heat active backing all suggest these patches were not period pieces but made in the style of various proposed wings of the 40’s and early 50’s. They are all padded with well-defined material under the black backing (thread count ~ 41/inch). They are quite stiff, probably because of the glue that binds the backing to the felt base. One also notices that on viewing the wing edge on, there is a layer of white woven material sandwiched in-between the backing and the felt of the wing base. This was probably used to provide a base for the stitching on the front of the patch. It is also worth noting that the white areas fluoresce under UV light. This is something that isn’t seen on original WWII or even into the 50 era wings unless they have been washed in a phosphate detergent.
I don’t claim to be an expert or even knowledgeable about wing design and if anyone has information that would help to further describe or explain these examples, I would encourage you to comment to this thread. It is only through discussion will we ultimately reach a consensus on some of these controversial aircrew items.
Ultimately, they are interesting in that they represent a cross section of patterns that were being considered during or immediately post war. Some of the original designs only ever existed in sketches while others may have been produced in a limited run of samples. Typically, these examples now sell for a price commensurate for what they actually are, relatively modern replicas of proposed and obsolete wing designs and as always, it is “Buyer Beware”.





Bibliography
Carroll, W. (1981). Wings, First Edition. self published.
Thompson, R. (1973). Wings of the Canadian Armed Forces Volume 1 1913-1972. self published.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg RCAF Trial Pattern Wings 1947 - 1948, late manufacture sm.jpg (45.2 KB, 64 views)
File Type: jpg set 1.jpg (40.1 KB, 49 views)
File Type: jpg Set 2.jpg (49.4 KB, 48 views)
File Type: jpg backs.jpg (68.4 KB, 36 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-12-15, 08:25 PM
Bill A's Avatar
Bill A Bill A is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 11,529
Default

RCAF Mike will likely chime in.
I have one additional comment. The NB wings are embroidered in the same weird serif font as some known reproductions of Second World War types of army cloth.
__________________
Res ipsa loquitur
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 17-12-15, 03:07 AM
Vuhlkansu's Avatar
Vuhlkansu Vuhlkansu is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 38
Default

Yes, I have seen those on ebay every so often.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 17-12-15, 04:53 AM
Jackhr Jackhr is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: St Leonards Victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,134
Default

What is your opinion on this one?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg s-l1600.jpg (41.6 KB, 31 views)
File Type: jpg s-l1600 (1).jpg (45.6 KB, 23 views)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 17-12-15, 06:30 AM
zorgon's Avatar
zorgon zorgon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 218
Default

Hi Jack:
My guess is that it is a fine, original example of a British made, WWII era pilots wing. At least I hope so! I have picked up identical ones in the past. Attached are some very similar examples that have sold on eBay (two of them to me).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg KC Pilot 2007.jpg (79.2 KB, 33 views)
File Type: jpg KC Pilot 2008.jpg (65.1 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg KC Pilot sold $109.jpg (61.7 KB, 32 views)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 17-12-15, 06:54 AM
Jackhr Jackhr is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: St Leonards Victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,134
Default

Thanks mate yes it was sold as WW2.

Cheers
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 17-12-15, 12:39 PM
Bill A's Avatar
Bill A Bill A is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 11,529
Default

zorgon, A question about the construction of these wings. Why is the backing material sewn in the manner shown? Each of the examples show long runs between catches. What was the purpose for this type of stitching?
__________________
Res ipsa loquitur
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 17-12-15, 03:40 PM
zorgon's Avatar
zorgon zorgon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 218
Default

Hi Bill:
A good question. It does look pretty random and sloppy but after all, it is the back. I believe most of the British made patches from that era were also initially covered with a very thin black paper which cleaned up the look. The paper however doesn’t take much moisture and will peel off relatively easily if washed or soaked (see pic).
As for the stitching, and this is based solely on observation, it was just there to keep the heavy muslin (?) cloth backing intact, keeping the layers tight at the edges but also snug in the wider portions which in turn strengthened the wing and retained the padding (if used). It didn’t have to be pretty but enough stitching was required to keep the overall wing construction intact. It also made sense to fasten the layers together with a colour that blended into the front wool. Note that the one thread running off the vertical in the center will end up at the side of the crown. If it was perfectly vertical, it had a better chance of catching the top of the crown on the front with the black thread detracting from the look.
Just a guess.

Cheers,
Wayne
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 30's pilot.jpg (62.1 KB, 22 views)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 17-12-15, 05:43 PM
Bill A's Avatar
Bill A Bill A is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 11,529
Default

Hi Wayne, Thanks for the observations. It is not a very "neat" construction, but if covered it may not have mattered.
__________________
Res ipsa loquitur
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 17-12-15, 06:05 PM
RCAF_Mike RCAF_Mike is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 446
Default

The rear stitching of almost every RCAF wing is done in this haphazard manner..... I don't know if there's a rhyme or reason to it, but it's always a good sign to me when looking at wings! This style is not reserved solely for Canadians though, have a look at the backs of these two Australian pieces. The top is a pilot's wing made in Australia and the bottom is an Observer made in England
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0921.jpg (80.1 KB, 21 views)
__________________
MIKE
Collecting RCAF Wings Uniforms Badges and Insignia
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 17-12-15, 06:21 PM
Bill A's Avatar
Bill A Bill A is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 11,529
Default

Thanks Mike. One could say then, that this stitching is a characteristic one would look for when authenticating wings?
__________________
Res ipsa loquitur
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 17-12-15, 07:57 PM
RCAF_Mike RCAF_Mike is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 446
Default

Potentially, but first and foremost one should look at the quality of materials and construction. This stitching quirk does seem to be commonplace, so it's a good sign at least
__________________
MIKE
Collecting RCAF Wings Uniforms Badges and Insignia
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 17-12-15, 10:37 PM
Bill A's Avatar
Bill A Bill A is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 11,529
Default

Understood, that characteristic would be one of several to evaluate the authenticity.
__________________
Res ipsa loquitur
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 18-12-15, 01:35 AM
Wingnut's Avatar
Wingnut Wingnut is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 233
Default

Totally legit wing. Yes Brit made second war issue. Lots of pics of pilots wearing that variant.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
aircrew, fake, prototypes, rcaf wing, replicas

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:46 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.